New Iron Hills Unique Siege Weapon

[Elite KryPtik]

Just found this clip from the extended edition, this is a freaking brilliant idea, which I'm not sure is even possible in the game. Having the ballistae in this scene in the game would be absolutely incredible if its possible, and if the team likes it. I know that they haven't agreed with all the concepts of the movie, but this is a damn good one in my view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkgLCrjcyHo

[LordDainIronfoot]

I am a big fan if the Iron Ballista I loved them in the Movie but I doubt the Anti Arrow Effect can be used or goos for Balance! :-)
But the Ballista however can make an excellent Anti Infantry Weapon as in the Movie !I have actually created a Thread about the Dwarven Siege Weapons and suggested it long time ago,you can take a look there mate ! :-)
But I do support the idea of the Ballista in Iron Hills! :-)

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

Even if those ballistas will be used in game (which would be very nice), I doubt they'll get that... well, as LordDain said: "anti-arrow effect". Though one of the ET members (I don't remember which one) said it'd be possible. But we'll see

[LordDainIronfoot]

Yup the Anti Arrow Effect is possible to a degree but too complicated and I doubt it will get good use in game as it would im Movie.or Real Combat ! :-)
But Iron Ballista with some Extra DMG against Infantry or with some kind of Knockback similar to the one in the Movie will be nice and will fitt the DMG which is the Main Strength of Edain Iron Hills! :-)


Here is link to our old Unique Siege Weapon Thread for Each Kingdom for Balance! :-) If you haven't seen it you can take a look if you want to! :-)

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31526.0.html

[Elite KryPtik]

I have seen it, but there are faaaar too many posts to be worth reading through at this point. I would love to see the anti-arrow effect, that is such an incredibly brilliant and unique concept. Say what you want about the third film, but the extended edition really makes those battle scenes epic.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I too am very found of the Anti Arrow Effect it is simply epic and really useful to counter Volley of Arrows and at the same time it adds Anti Infantry Effect too because of the Splash and Area DMG the Chains do!

But if the Anti Arrow Effect is too complicated and hard to use in Game I suggest if it is possible to add Visually those Chains and implement the Anti Infantry Effect ,I mean when the Iron Ballista fires we see the Chains Swirling and when they hit they do some Mediun Area DMG and Knockback but not too strong to make it OP! :-) It will fit the Nature of Iron Hills Strength and it will be one really unique Siege Artillery Weapon! :-)
What you think about that!?

Greetings ! :-)

[Fredius]

I'm in favor of giving Iron Hills the Iron Ballista. First of all, giving every Dwarven faction a different siege weapon makes them even more unique from each other, and it would be nice to give a Dwarven faction, in this case the Iron Hills, a Ballista instead of a Catapult. It's the same idea as the ranged units in the Dwarven factions:

- Crossbows for Ered Mithrin
- Archers for Iron Hills
- Axe-Throwers for Erebor

I think that this logic should also apply to the siege weapons in the Dwarven factions, and giving the Iron Hills a Ballista is a good start .

A Ballista is historically a real unit killer, but was not used against big castle walls. That's why I think the ballista should deal great damage to units, but less damage to buildings. However, as they are counted as siege weapons in the game, they should ofcourse deal more damage to buildings than regular infantry units.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Do you mean Crossbows for Ered Luin not Mithrin!?

Well I personalyl always thought that Crossbows are more like Iron Hills style than Ered Luin but that is completely another Topic!

On the topic at hand,I do agree with you! Ballista will make IHs more uniqe than the other 2 and yet Again Iron Hills can still have its cool Triple Catapults on the Walls!

As I have said I tihnk the Ballistas should do some Moderate DMG to Infnatry with some little Knockback as in the Movie!What you think about that mate!?

[korner]

Ballistas should not replace katapults, as ballistas are no proper weapon to destroy buildings (as Fredius already stated).

I´m okay to implement it as an additional ranged weapon against units, maybe as a special weapon especially designed against siege weapons with high range rather than specialised against masses of normal troops.

BUT: That anti-arrow thing is absolutely unrealistic and furthermore it´ll be nearly impossible to use it in game.

[LordDainIronfoot]

Now I see your point and agree!

I wil lsay that is not so unrealistic nor impossible,but rather too complex and complicated to proper use in game so yeah I to do not think the Anti Arrow Effect should be in game!


I think they ca be good against Infantry but not OP and doing mas damage and all,but rather small effect on Units and better against other Siege Weapon!

[korner]

If you look on real historical use of ballistas, they were used to shoot one single, heavy targets (ships, siege towers, battering rams, wooden pallisades where archers hide etc.) rather then just firing somewhere in the middle of some people running around.

Reason is that a bolt (no matter how big it is) does not really have any "area damage". It hits a single target very hard, maybe crushes through and hits someone hiding behind an obstacle, but that´s it.

Therefore I´d prefer that ballistas:
- should get very high damage against single target (but only little damage against buildings, maybe except gates)
- a very narrow, but strong area damage (like 1 - max. 2 meters in real scale)

Their use would then be:
- shoot on enemy siege weapons
- shoot on trolls, mumakils...
- shoot on units in defensive block stance, for example tower guards (due to the small but strong area damage they´d be hit much harder then troops in lose formation!)

[LordDainIronfoot]

Well the Are DGM and the Small KNockbacks with this parcticular Ballistas comes from the Chains on the Bolts!

But that aside I do agree with your udea about against what they should be used!

[korner]

Well the Are DGM and the Small KNockbacks with this parcticular Ballistas comes from the Chains on the Bolts!

yes... which is why I was talking about realistic use 

[LordDainIronfoot]

We had long discuission long time ago which I do not wish to repeat but that is actualyl quite possible!

But lets stay on topic !

The thing is if the Catapults stay and the Ballistas are like Extra Siege Unit,similar to the Earth Shaker then as in my Old TThread was about we should find a Extra Unit for Ered Luin too!

[Fredius]

If you look on real historical use of ballistas, they were used to shoot one single, heavy targets (ships, siege towers, battering rams, wooden pallisades where archers hide etc.) rather then just firing somewhere in the middle of some people running around.

Hmm that's half correct, people actually did use them to fire on masses of soldiers, because the chance was big that they would skewer multiple men with just 1 bolt. Source: http://www.militaryfactory.com/ancient-warfare/detail.asp?ancient_id=Ballista

Altough it's a pretty good idea to use them especially agianst trolls or other monsters. What I propose is to give them little area damage, but if they manage to hit they would give a lot of damage to the poor victims. I like your idea about using them against tight formations, they are a perfect counter for that.

However, I do not agree with keeping both the Catapult AND the ballista. Iron Hills already has a catapult when the Ered Mithrin outpost is built, so now they actually have 2 catapults .

P.S. Yes Dain I meant Ered Luin Crossbowmen* , my bad.