[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions
Battlewagons Improvements
Walküre:
--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 26. Nov 2015, 05:38 ---1 thing to note though, the way you have the suggestion setup seems to not leave much room for debate, I would put at both beginning and end of the post that the idea can be restructured freely by the team for balance and according the teams desire, but that's just me personally :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
I think that it's always necessarily implied that the Edain Team has the last word on everything, since they obviously are the ones who personally might choose to implement something or not, and that everyone has always the possibility of expressing further opinions, as long as the thread is not locked.
So, you could legitimately give this kind of information in a concept you propose, but it's not really compulsory :)
Yes, I agree, Dáin and Crag you have done a really dedicated and detailed work, clearly exposed and debated, backed also by a relative constructive poll.
What could a Moderator ask more? :P
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 26. Nov 2015, 05:38 ---Great work Dain and especially Crag for the custom icons and sounds. You've summarized everything perfectly. 1 thing to note though, the way you have the suggestion setup seems to not leave much room for debate, I would put at both beginning and end of the post that the idea can be restructured freely by the team for balance and according the teams desire, but that's just me personally :)
--- Ende Zitat ---
Thanks Elite, your opinion is always appreciated, you are well know here as person of objective thought. :)
Concerning your mini suggestion, I will try not to quote Dain or Walk. xD
I personally think we were supposed to do that from objective&manners reasons, but as Walk have said but it's not really compulsory, simply because ET have last word here, and everyone knows that. :)
They will use current shape of this suggestion or some other changed shape which is more fitting in their opinion if they find this proposal useful in first place. :)
Concerning further debate, there is always place, simply I have underlined in my previous comment this is "first" complete proposal. :) But if you have that feeling about debate, that gives me also a feeling that we have done good job, which is good thing in one way. xD
We have just tried to polish it to final level from aspect of proposal, all parts have been suggested, and we have done everything which is in domain of our possibilities right now. :) Because of that this is final concept as proposal from our side. It is of course, subject to change in any term by Edain team. :)
And again, any new suggestion concerning this proposal are welcome. :)
P.S. If there is anything which need to be questioned about sounds now or in future I am responsible for those files. :) Simply I state this because if some other kind of sound effect is needed for crossbow upgrade I will make it, I have tried to find source files for single crossbow shot. If team decide to develop some kind of automatic "burst" crossbow ability, I can make new sound effect which will correspond to duration of that burst, it is not problem at all. :)
Kind regards,
CragLord
Fredius:
Excellent work guys, I don't think it can be even more perfected!
magickoala:
Amazing work there, guys, this looks like a real effort of planning, lore concept and well balanced changes. I think the amount of content here is enough to make the idea work by itself. Really impressive!
I would like to point some notes:
1. The skill *Flash bombs* name seems a bit off for me. While dwarves are know for minor powder manipulation, theyre not anything near Saruman's use of explosives or similar powder-powered devices. A dwarf using a bomb creates a gap between the native knowledge of the dwarves and the *possibilities*. The concept of the skill itself sounds OK, thou.
2. The Ered Luin and Erebor chariots looks very much like the same,while the Iron Hills chariot have its own exquisite design. I suggest you plan over changing some aspects on the shape of the first or latter, this way you can easly identify them when in battle.
3. The mountain goats are awsome, lol.
4. Ered Luin Great Shield:
While i love the concept and the idea,i think the icon shouldnt have a 2D plain perspective approach. Radial buttons dont go very well with plain front pictures, makes is slightly confusing to understand when in the small palantir ring. While it works very well for Stances and other *Activate Skill* abilities, as these icons must be absolutely clear, it makes confusing when picturing a *Research Skill Ability*.
The main reason behind this is because dwarven shields are always square, and putting those inside a radial button messes with the depth perception on the drawing itself.
Heres a example for a perspective shield:
http://marr3d.com/uploads/1/1/9/7/11974703/3286015_orig.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1jdjh8a.jpg
3. Your icons are going great, thus if you notice, most of BFME2 radial icons have a little blue gradient/sky-like/orby thing in the background. Edain seems to follow that pattern,so would be cool to paintup a background with some blue and white brushing.
4. The Dain II Wheel icon its a little too dark since it have a lot of natural shadowing for a picture. The details will pretty much vanish ingame :) try to bright up a little the shadowed parts. ^^
5.Wheelblades icon looks very cool ^^
6.These armored boars are actual models or screens from a editor? They look really badass!
7.As i think the Hero Chariots are absolutely glorious, i think just a king should be able to ride such a noble vehicle. Your plan is to make heroes able to attack inside chariots? If so, it would be epically OP if widespread to 5 heroes .. o.0 lol I like it thou, xD
8;Base Area DMG for the effect, sounds a bit more straightforward, easier to deal it, and that splash damage is nice. They will be like Rohan horseman on steroids while trampling thou, so it need to have a weakness. Pikes?
Overall, i think this is an awsome idea and revitalizes the lore on the wagons for the dwarves, making them more close to the universe without hurting the mechanics. Hoping that it happens :)
Cheers o/
CragLord:
--- Zitat von: magickoala am 26. Nov 2015, 23:34 ---Amazing work there, guys, this looks like a real effort of planning, lore concept and well balanced changes. I think the amount of content here is enough to make the idea work by itself. Really impressive!
I would like to point some notes:
1. The skill *Flash bombs* name seems a bit off for me. While dwarves are know for minor powder manipulation, theyre not anything near Saruman's use of explosives or similar powder-powered devices. A dwarf using a bomb creates a gap between the native knowledge of the dwarves and the *possibilities*. The concept of the skill itself sounds OK, thou.
2. The Ered Luin and Erebor chariots looks very much like the same,while the Iron Hills chariot have its own exquisite design. I suggest you plan over changing some aspects on the shape of the first or latter, this way you can easly identify them when in battle.
3. The mountain goats are awsome, lol.
4. Ered Luin Great Shield:
While i love the concept and the idea,i think the icon shouldnt have a 2D plain perspective approach. Radial buttons dont go very well with plain front pictures, makes is slightly confusing to understand when in the small palantir ring. While it works very well for Stances and other *Activate Skill* abilities, as these icons must be absolutely clear, it makes confusing when picturing a *Research Skill Ability*.
The main reason behind this is because dwarven shields are always square, and putting those inside a radial button messes with the depth perception on the drawing itself.
Heres a example for a perspective shield:
http://marr3d.com/uploads/1/1/9/7/11974703/3286015_orig.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1jdjh8a.jpg
3. Your icons are going great, thus if you notice, most of BFME2 radial icons have a little blue gradient/sky-like/orby thing in the background. Edain seems to follow that pattern,so would be cool to paintup a background with some blue and white brushing.
4. The Dain II Wheel icon its a little too dark since it have a lot of natural shadowing for a picture. The details will pretty much vanish ingame :) try to bright up a little the shadowed parts. ^^
5.Wheelblades icon looks very cool ^^
6.These armored boars are actual models or screens from a editor? They look really badass!
7.As i think the Hero Chariots are absolutely glorious, i think just a king should be able to ride such a noble vehicle. Your plan is to make heroes able to attack inside chariots? If so, it would be epically OP if widespread to 5 heroes .. o.0 lol I like it thou, xD
8;Base Area DMG for the effect, sounds a bit more straightforward, easier to deal it, and that splash damage is nice. They will be like Rohan horseman on steroids while trampling thou, so it need to have a weakness. Pikes?
Overall, i think this is an awsome idea and revitalizes the lore on the wagons for the dwarves, making them more close to the universe without hurting the mechanics. Hoping that it happens :)
Cheers o/
--- Ende Zitat ---
Thank you very much man, for those words. :)
Your opinion is more then welcome. :)
We have worked on this concept for longer period of time, with no hurry. :) And through discussion with other members we have polished this concept.
I will try to answer you on your questions, but expect some answers more especially from Lord Dain. :)
1. Skill "Flash bombs" have used because of Hobbit movies mainly. I can't remember who suggested it (i think it was Elite), but idea is used from second Hobbit movie, when Balin goes to dwarven armory (or chemical lab :D ) and makes some of those bombs. They later use it on Smaug, but without effect. xD
That is basic idea for name of ability and effect on units (stun effect). About lore things, we had some discussion about it before I think, and at the end we decide to call it flash bombs. We kept effect on buildings as main one, because Erebor is "siege" faction amoung dwarves, and that effect on units mainly because of idea from movie and mainly because of balace, because other chariots abilities are also good in some way.
If there is some other more appropriate name on your mind, or if someone else have idea for if or effects of ability, we will gladly discuss and improve this concept. :)
2. Yes, we know, but we just wanted to use three different models, but we got depleted with material about third one (this is mostly from weta books, and sadly we haven't found some third model for this chariots).
IH has model of chariots from third Hobbit movie, EredLuin and Erebor have same one, but there will be different animals and different abilities to underline difference between those dwarven realms. :)
Again, if you have some suggestion we are more then glad to hear. :)
3. It is magnificent animal. I have done some research because this concept, and this species lives on cliffs, don't have sounds (have one or three tones which uses for communication) and it is able to jumb from cliff to cliff which are separated by 50 meters of abyss. It is species of wild goats which is very recognizable, and we think some model inspired by it should be in game. :)
4. I agree, and believe you, just I needed much more practise so I could think in that way. I will try to improve it in that way. :) Thank you so much for this advice!
3. (again :D ) Yes, agree, just tell me for some exaple in game, so I could make visual contact. :) Best way to learn is by example. :)
4. I will try to improve it, so I need to select darker parts and only to make them a bit brighter. xD
I will try.
5. Thank you!
6. It is work by some guy from net, weta inspired him. Dain found them, so he will give you answers about that, I am pretty without more info.
7. No, it is not planed that heroes can fight from those royal chariots. It's main role will be ofc transport of heroes, because of that Dain limited them to 5, so every hero can have it's personal chariot. Nice thought about heroes, but I think it will be too much. xD
8. Yes, every single of them will be instant pike vulnerable (except maybe EredLuin's ones, they will have some defence boost by their ability in limited time, if team implement them in currently suggested way). Currenlty in game exist some problem with battle wagons, their armor is very low in general against melee. One of ides of this topic was to improve those weaknesses some how. :)
Thank you for your feedback, it was very instructive and useful. We are opened for every new idea, so fell free to suggest, corrects us etc.
Kind regards,
CragLord
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