[en] The Prancing Pony > Other
A possible new Evil Men faction
Elite KryPtik:
--- Zitat von: Fredius am 3. Jan 2016, 01:24 ---You know, in the German side of the suggestion forums there is already a whole proposal made for the Evil Men faction. The whole faction is fleshed out in a 4 page discussion :D. Here is the link, just try using google translate: http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32289.0.html
--- Ende Zitat ---
If you have the time, it would be really great if you could translate this over to proper English for us. I would like to read it but google translate just does too poor of a job, the English is too broken for me to understand properly. You've taken several ideas from the English forums to German, how about letting us see something from the other side? Thanks! :)
Fredius:
Omg have you seen how huge that proposal is :D?? It will take quite a while to translate, but I'll try it someday. I won't translate the whole thing though, but only summarize the important stuff.
Elite KryPtik:
Yes I did see, I know its a big post, which is why I want to read it xD
A summary would be fantastic if you could do it :)
Isildur_014:
IIDEAS: EVIL MEN
Rhun
Although we have no precise information about Rhun, it's likely that Tolkien must have been based in Eastern cultures from Eastern Europe and the Far East, such as the Turkish-Mongol and Chinese. That's pretty speculated among those who research about Tolkien's universe.
In my opinion, although Rhun be a faction of wicked men, she might have a fortress with defensive aspect, similar to Angmar. The reason for this is what I have explained in previous reviews about their mining and work with wood.
Buildings and military units in Rhun.
• Royal Palace: central location of Rhun fortress belonging to the King Overlord. It is also the place where the heroes of that faction are trained.
• Military Academy: Standard building for training of military units of the eastern army. Train swordsmen, spearmen and archers. These units can start with arms and light armor or medium that can be updated later in the game.
• Stables: train the cavalry Rhun, which although not as powerful as the Rohan or Gondor, serves to support the infantry. At its peak the stable can train chariots. These cars would not be equal to exist in their neighboring nation, Iron Hills, but have their peculiarities. The horse-drawn carriages would be instead of goats;the number of war chariots would be limited so as not to divert the focus of Rhun infantry. In relation to its model, I think they could remember the models used by Eastern peoples in ancient and middle ages.
• Arsenal: a building would be able to provide updates on weapons and armor for the army of Rhun. Too, can build siege weapons. These weapons can be the standard battering ram and some sort of catapult.
Economic buildings in Rhun.
• Local Market: economic constructions that generates resources, and provide economic improvements. Buildable only within the fortress.
• Mining field: generate resources. Buildable inside and outside the fortress.
• Farm: generate resources. Buildable only outside the fortress.
Rhun Outposts
Initially, I mean I realize that in the community there are two prevailing opinions about the factions of evil men. The first is that all sub-factions of evil men must be blended into one; The second is that the main factions are (Rhun and Harad) must be separated, however, related to smaller Sub-factions support (Umbar and Khand, for example). I support this last idea, not only for aesthetic reasons but also in respect to the works of Tolkien and interpretations of fans in addition to the model proposed by the team Edain.
On this last, I remember that ET has already ruled in the sense that the focus of the team to the Edain 4.0, was as each faction could build on conquered territory, not just a web of functional buildings that flout tradition Tolkien, or in the words of his own team Edain: "because we are no longer limiting ourselves to what fits in an inn, but rather concentrate on what a specific faction would be able to build on a given patch of land".
In this sense, I think Rhun would not allow the construction of a Giant war camp belonging to Harad on its territory. Just as Harad would hardly allow the construction of a fortress Rhun in their land. However, Rhun could easily allow the construction of a fortress mini Variag faction of Khand and Harad a fortress of mini Umbar faction. This would be, in my opinion the most correct way to fit all factions of evil men in the Edain Mod, so that they combine in way possible, respecting the model proposed by the Edain Team and also tradition of Tolkien. The solution to this is the Outposts.
Regarding Rhun, we have the following:
• Frontier Fortress: buildable at the outpost. The reason for existence of this building is that in Tolkien's maps, the Rhun region is quite extensive, so that you, go beyond the lands known by most middle ground west of people. This implies that to keep such a large territory, building powerful strongholds in its various regions, mainly border is required. These buildings can train units that are linked directly to the King Overlord, as Royal Guard, for example, which is to enforce the will of the King in the most remote regions of the kingdom.
• Fortaleza Variag: buildable at the outpost. Train Elite units of the army of Khand. Although there is no much information about the Variag, Tolkien wrote that fought alongside the East in the fields of Pelennor and "hated the sun." There are theories which states that the word comes from the Hindu language Khand "Khand", which means something like "Kingdom". Incidentally, if we compare the average earth map as the map of our world, we see that Khand is located in a similar location where is India, giving an idea of its origin and how would their culture.
Remember what I said is not absolute or 100% true, but just my interpretation of my reading the works of Tolkien and added interpretations of other fans. :)
soon I will do my comment 3/4 explaining my general ideas for Harad.
CragLord:
Hello everyone! :)
This is nice topic.
First of all, I have voted for one combined faction, but the most accurate thing in my opinion is to have 2 factions concerning men of the east. Even 3. ;)
In general, this is really serious matter. Some seroius lore "analysis" is needed to be done before any suggestion concerning this matter.
There are so much "contradictory" informations concerning men of the east.
In time of WOTR, it is for sure that all of them very united against Free people, so idea of one faction concening men of the east is ok.
I see that some suggestions have been made concerning factions, builidings, outposts etc.
I won't suggest for now anything or comment current suggestions, I will just call on more analysis of data we have concening these men of the east.
First, we know about Eastelings of Rhûn and Haradrim of the south, also there was Umbar and Khand.
In general there are several "nations" of men of the east. Almost all of them were in war with each other, but during War of the Ring, they were united under Sauron's influence against Free folk.
I will just give some basic info concerning men of the east, and call you guys to base your primary ideas on lore accurate facts we have. I mainly rely on tolkien gateway, because it is for now the most accurate site concerning lore. :)
Here is one rough map with territories: http://img09.deviantart.net/1180/i/2012/151/6/0/middle_earth_by_eowyn_saule-d51r9oh.jpg
So there are Khand, Harad (Near Harad and Far Harad), Rhûn.
* Khand was populated with people called Variags. They were during ages in war with people of Rhûn, but during WotR under influence of Sauron, these 2 were in alliance.
Concering Khand history and develpoment during ages, there isn't so much info from official lore data base. One of "unofficial" sites which data could be used in good way (as motivation and idea source) is this one:
http://wiki.lindefirion.net/CategoryKhand
* Harad was inhabited by many different tribes called Haradrim.
They were ancient enemies of Gondor.
Interesting info is that during second age Harradrim came under infliuence of Númenóreans. They taught then many new things (The Númenóreans made settlements on the southern coasts, including the Havens of Umbar where they built a great fortress in 2280 year of SA).
Later with forging ring of power, Sauron influenced these Harradrim and these Númenóreans who survived destruction of Númenor. So, these Númenóreans became Black Númenóreans. Some of them became very powerful among Harradrim. So there is also possibility that King of Harradrim is one of Black Númenóreans etc.
* There is also Umbar which is populated with corsairs during WOTR.
There are also a lot of ideas concerning Umbar on already mentioned site:
http://wiki.lindefirion.net/Umbar
* One of people were Wainriders.
They were nomadic people. They journeyed in great wagons, and their chieftains rode chariots in battle. They lived in regions of Rhovanion, lands east of and around Rhûn. They were allied with Men of Harad and Khand against Gondor long before time of WOTR.
* And finally the most dangerous and evil ones, Easterlings. They lived in regions of Rhovanion, lands east of and including Rhûn.
They were influenced from their early beginning by Morgoth and later by Sauron. In first age, one of their chieftains was "Ulfang the Black", who betrayed Noldor. They were simply "black hearted". They are very dangerous and the most powerful allies of Sauron during WOTR.
Nazgul Khamul was also one of Easterlings.
These were some basic informations from Tolkien Gateway. I just tried to present some "rough" division, in order to get better picture before suggesting anything.
Relationships between these people of the east, their kind of life, warfare, history and other data are something which need to be analysed in detailed way before making any concept, in the first place concept of one or two factions.
I think this is really tough matter which will require a lot of time, because of that I think it should be discussed later after all other factions are realised, which is also idea of team I think.
Regards,
CragLord
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