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A possible new Evil Men faction

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Slawek56703:
I was the only one who voted for more units from spelbook he he . I think Rhun or Harad
can replace Mordor on certain maps like Arnor/Gondor or maybe 3rd option on small camp (the one with 3 build plots ) curently used Minas Morgul / Cirith Ungol the 3rd option could me Evil men faction and then option for Harad or Rhun (player choice) Of course summoned units still exist well lets say summoned are uniqe and in this camp for evil man harad had no mumakil and Rhun ummm lets say Soldier of Rhun ? or whatever they called
there are currently if i no mistaken 2 Pike units Rhun so one summoned and Normal Easterling possible to Recruit . This is all Sorry for Language
PS : we need horns sounds from lotr when we summon Harad /Rhun elites 

CragLord:
I am not so found of camp version. I think that current outpost buildings are very reasonable and nice. Concerning "evil men" role in Mordor faction, I think that current situation is nice and "enough". They were mainly supporters to Sauron, and one of main reinforcements during WOTR. So their current situation as summon power is very fitting in Mordor faction, and I wouldn't like to see that changed.
Also suggestion of replacing Mordor on some maps maybe has sence, but again I don't see that as fitting suggestion. That basicaly means that you need again to "build" new faction in purpose of using it on some maps.
If there are tendency of creating this new faction (and there are enough material from lore which indicates that we can create this new faction as separate one) then it should be done as one independent faction (nothing similar to Arnor/Gondor).
Also Mordor is already "the most powerful faction". Adding this new Outpost will just make faction overdosed.
Making more units from summoning spell is more balance thing, again I find current summons pretty nice (except maybe lack of Haradrim archers) in lore and balance terms.
From lore materil it is obvious that "Men of the East" need seperate faction in my opinion. Question is 1 or 2? :) xD

PS. I just want to say (as in my previous comment), there is enough materil for new faction concerning "evil men", just we need to anylize that material in very detailed way before suggesting anything.

Regards,
CragLord

lotr1997:
I agree with CragLord, I want Separate Factions if it ever does come to the game.

Skeetles:
My personal bias is towards a single faction, split in two representing the northern and southern branches of the evil men, with harad/southrons having a umbar/black númenórean sub faction and the rhûn/easterlings having a khandish sub faction.
(Preferably it would mimic the dwarves in a lot of ways)

I also think that the spells mordor has shouldn't be changed, except maybe replacing one of the horsemen units in the harad spell with archers, but even that's pushing it a bit (since I can't personally recall much mention of archers, the reinforcements in the pelennor were mostly cavalry)

I'm wondering how you guys would imagine an evil men faction would play, though? Since they're the most likely candidate to become a thing.

Personally I think Harad would be mostly light armor, hard hitting raider faction with some 'glass cannon' elites save for maybe a solid elite infantry half troll unit or elite guard in form of númenóreans, with fast anti-economy umbar units.

Rhûn would be more of the opposite, but still offensively oriented (keeping up with the evil factions roster, ofcourse) their units sporting heavy armor from the get-go but lacking the heavier hitting base line. Their elites would be designed to fight the dwarves head-on and keep up with their late-game armor insanity.
Khandish should be a build plot for them, and provide cheaper and faster units more in line with my thoughts for umbar, with an elite unit with high damage to armor.

bookworm1138:
working off your idea, Skeetles, here is what i would suggest:

Suggestion 1: a Rhun fortress as the base fortress, since most of the people commenting on this thread seem to agree with Rhun being more "stable" as opposed to Harad's more nomadic culture. The outposts can create two different camps: a Rhun camp and a Harad camp. They would both act like the regular outposts for Gondor, Rohan, Isengard and Mordor, with three build-plots on them.

The Harad camp would build the Haradrim Palace, the Umbar Tavern and the Mumakil Pen. The Harad camp will be like the one in BfMe1, which trains Haradrim units: Archer, Spear-Thrower, a Mahud half-troll elite warrior and the Harad cavalry. The Mumakil Pen would, of course, train Mumaks. The Umbar Tavern (or you can make a more Byzantine-style structure, reflecting Umbar's place as the former trade center of the Numenorean civilization at the vanguard of Haradwaith, just as Constantinople was the trade gateway for the Eastern Roman Empire on the edge of the eastern lands in the real world) would train Umbar corsairs (the ones from the standard BfME2) and elite archers (as Umbar, especially in the films, is depicted as a ship-fairing nation, long-range archers would be most useful firing from the decks of their black ships).

I feel that the Variags of Khand, as they are the one sub-faction with the least known about them according to the official lore (and not even appearing in the movies), should be represented on an expansion plot building, similar to the Ranger Tents or Beorning Hut. While I know that the Edain Team is rather fond of the Lord of the Rings table-top game, I found the bushido-samurai style of the Variags therefrom to be a bit too real-world recognizable. I would recommend, since "Variag" is similar to the real-world word "Varangian", the Variags of Khand would be a nomadic Black Numenorean sub-faction, almost like super-evil Norsemen (the book also describes them with axes and beards like Dwarves).

Suggestion 2: since this is a faction of Evil Men, we start off with a no-walls Black Numenorean fortress, representing that the Black Numenorean servants of Sauron (like the Mouth of Sauron) were the ones that brought the Men of Darkness back under the sway of Sauron. then, in similar fashion to the Dwarves, you can choose whether to have Rhun or Umbar as the main faction. the main problems with this suggestion would be the lack of originality, since this would be a repeat of the Dwarves, and that it would require expanding Umbar, since having a massive Harad fortress would be unlike their nomadic nature. also it would probably be hard to have the AI use this as well.

Additional suggestions about units and their roles:

Rhun:

Easterling Swordsmen - light melee unit
Easterling Pikemen - anti-cavalry melee unit
Soldiers of Rhun - elite anti-cavalry melee unit
Balchoth Lancer - light cavalry
Rhunic Cataphract - heavy cavalry
Wain-Rider - elite ranged cavalry
Blue Acoltye - elite spellcaster/siege unit

Khand Subfaction:

Variag Berserker - elite melee unit

Harad:

Haradrim Archer - light ranged unit
Haradrim Spear-Thrower - elite ranged unit
Mahud Half-Troll - elite melee unit
Haradrim Cavalry - medium cavalry
Mumakil - elite ranged cavalry/siege unit

Umbar Subfaction:

Corsair of Umbar - elite melee unit
Umbar Archer - elite ranged unit

The Easterling Swordsmen would fit into the first suggestion, filling in the role of light melee unit that, until now, Rhun has been lacking. The Blue Acolyte would be based on what little we know about the Blue Wizards, with one rumor being that they founded (unintentionally or not) magic cults during their ventures into the East. It certainly seems to be the most fantastical element here, and would seem more fantastic on the field of battle, throwing fire-balls to tear down fortress walls, but my thoughts on this matter were to have a siege unit that was wholly unique and not just another catapult (the Haradrim have the Mumakil, which could very much be used as a siege unit as well as a troop carrier and walking garrisonable tower). Other suggestions for a more "realistic" Rhun siege weapon are welcome.

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