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Autor Thema: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls  (Gelesen 2282 mal)

The_Necromancer0

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Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« am: 15. Feb 2016, 07:21 »
It has come to my attention that Mollock is quite a problem for any Mordor player as he seems unable to do anything without the player being constantly zoomed on him. I had an extended playtime yesterday with him and became quite acquainted with several of the issues that make him this weak. I believe that Mollock weakness comes not from his stats but mostly how he handles enemy troops and how they handle him.

Once you set Mollock on an attack path towards a unit or hero he will charge straight at them, sword raised in the air and rush in. Upon contact he will trample the enemy for an instant, stop and then begin the attack. I believe that the team was aiming at Mollock creating small bumps in the enemy formations, pushing all the troops back in a small radius, but the truth is that Mollock simply jumps in the middle of fray. He knocks over a couple units but does not create a brief empty space around him. Because of this, once he has finished with the trampling he is surrounded by enemies on all sides and because he is treated like cavalry taking him out of the battle is very slow. So suggestion number one: No more trample capabilities. Instead Mollock should come up to the front of the enemy line and start attacking like any other hero. Other people have suggested a much higher resistance to trample revenge but I think that will unbalance the game if Mollock is able to trample through masses of pikemen without taking damage.

The second issue I have encountered was with his sword attack, many time I noticed that he would interrupt his attack once the unit he was attacking was killed, this might seem logical but the problem is that his attack is slow enough that he will constantly be interrupted if he is attacking the same units as other heroes. He should finish his attacks no matter what, like this he will hit the other units around him and it won't affect him if there are not units around him. Second suggestion: Non-discontinue-able attack.

I think that both the suggestions above fix how he handles enemy troops and will allow him to be better equipped to fight other units. There is still an issue on how units  handle him. Because of his size he is easily spotted among the masses of orcs and even among trolls, whereas other heroes have a certain degree of camouflage among units of the same class.

I don't have any ideas for a solid proposal on how we can change that but I imagine that it relies on how fast he can get away from the fight. In the battle of the Black Gate it is clear that Mollock is an agile warrior which can smell danger and run away quickly. Even before the tower of Sauron falls he smells the danger and makes his escape, probably surviving in the wild until his final days.

Other minor issues include his little quarrel with other trolls, although he is much more  skilled he is easily taken to the glimpse of an HP, I think the answer lies in passive abilities. This can either mean a slight buff against trolls or a attack speed/ attack strength/ armor debuff that lowers their power simply against Mollok

I believe that this will a better solution then buffing him, and this won't upset the balance simply re-equalize it.

Sincerely,
The Necromancer
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makis89

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #1 am: 15. Feb 2016, 12:50 »
i like your ideas , especially the first one . In my opinion, Mollock is a very difficult hero to play that's why i never use him and i think many other players
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The Witch-King of Angmar

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #2 am: 15. Feb 2016, 16:34 »
i use mollock alot every time i play as mordor and i find him actually very good as a siege hero and troops slayer , in my opinion he is not weak at all , you just have to get used to him , but about your second idea "Non-discontinue-able attack" i think you are right , this problem is annoying .

Hamanathnath

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #3 am: 16. Feb 2016, 16:40 »
I was going to make my own thread on Ideas to improve Mollock, but I'll post them here.

I agree with all 3 suggestions made by Necromancer, though the team has said in the past that they didn't want to take away the trolls ability to trample, so I'd assume the same would be for Mollock.  So a higher trample revenge resistance would be the next best choice, and I don't think that would make Mollock too strong because he will still be taking damage from the pikes, was well as everything else that is attacking him.

However, there are many other problems that I think need to be addressed. 

1.  Mollock is always focused down first when 2 armies fight.  His size makes him very easy to focus down, so every archer and hero will instantly focus him down, making him die within seconds.  Now I understand there is only so much you can do about this with out making Mollock practically invincible.  So I think the damage he takes from heroes is fine.  But he still takes extremely high damage from upgraded arrows.  So my suggestion would be to have him take less damage from Upgraded Arrows, because he is already an easy target to hit.

2.  The damage Mollock does to single targets.  There are 2 reasons why Mollock has a problem with single targets such as heroes and cave trolls.  The first is, well, the amount of damage he does :P.  It is low compared to most heroes, and yes, I know this is because he can hit multiple people at once.  So, to make sure he doesn't do too much damage to a lot of people, I think that the person that Mollock is targeting should take more damage from Mollock's attack, while everyone else hit takes the damage they would normally take.  If that is possible, I think that would be a perfect solution to that problem. 

The second, which is not as much of a problem, but still exists is that Mollock's attack speed is slow.  Even other Trolls attack faster then Mollock does.  So it might need to be increased slightly, but maybe not if his single target damage increases.

3.  Does anyone else find it weird that Mollock, who is a mass slayer, has a Building Destroying skill as his 3rd ability?  I do like the ability, but it feels kinda out of place when Mollock is using his sword.  What if he kept that ability, but you must have the hammer equip to use it?  This would allow him to have another ability when he has his sword out. 

I'm fine with the team coming up with another ability for Mollock.  But I'd thought I would come up with one myself.

Shattering Blade:  Mollock strikes a single target with a lethal force, causing high damage to that target, and knocking down anyone around Mollock in a short radius.  All foes who are knocked down by this attack are now 25% slower.

Well that's my thought on the matter.  I would really like to see at least some of these improvements on Mollock.  I think that Mollock needs some buffs to become worth buying in a competitive game.

Slawek56703

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #4 am: 7. Jan 2017, 21:11 »
I hope some of those improvments by Necro and Haman will see daylight and make to the game. This thread is nearly year old and i still waiting for some improvments for Mollok.

Zitat
3.  Does anyone else find it weird that Mollock, who is a mass slayer, has a Building Destroying skill as his 3rd ability?  I do like the ability, but it feels kinda out of place when Mollock is using his sword.  What if he kept that ability, but you must have the hammer equip to use it?  This would allow him to have another ability when he has his sword out. 

I'm fine with the team coming up with another ability for Mollock.  But I'd thought I would come up with one myself.

Shattering Blade:  Mollock strikes a single target with a lethal force, causing high damage to that target, and knocking down anyone around Mollock in a short radius.  All foes who are knocked down by this attack are now 25% slower.

This idea sounds good but to make this even better  Mollok use two-handed troll animation to do this ability .

Dain@

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #5 am: 5. Feb 2017, 11:02 »
Yes ! definitely agree with you! Healthy, booking Troll quickly dies and weak against heroes. But a fifth the ability to "call Troll" to delete. I think his role with the support of a strong hero of elements (or it gives bonuses to allies or enemies, he is frightening (maybe Passive like Nazgul)). As if there was not a decision I think the following: Increase its damage (especially anti-heroes) and improve armor. And his ability to keep the same, only the last is removed, and the ability of a substitute for leadership.

Julio229

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #6 am: 9. Apr 2017, 12:17 »
Just had the opportunity to witness Mollok fall prey to Gundabad Orcs... On the Legendary Heroes mode. I wish discussion can be sparked again on this topic, he really needs changes.


Slawek56703

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #7 am: 9. Apr 2017, 22:25 »
This is Armor of every Troll-hero in game

Armor EdainTrollHeroArmor
  Armor = DEFAULT         65%
  Armor = SLASH           65%
  Armor = PIERCE          25%
  Armor = CAVALRY_RANGED  25%
  Armor = SPECIALIST      100%
  Armor = CRUSH          100%
  Armor = CAVALRY         65%
  Armor = SIEGE          50%
  Armor = FLAME          100%
  Armor = FROST          100%
  Armor = MAGIC          100%   
  Armor = HERO           135%
  Armor = HERO_RANGED     65%
  Armor = POISON         100%   
  Armor = STRUCTURAL      25%
  Armor = CHOP           100%
  Armor = URUK            65%
  Armor = WATER          100%   
 
  FlankedPenalty      = 30%     
End

SLASH,URUK and CAVALRY damage are way to high imo i would increase thier ressistances to 30% at the highest 


OakenShield224

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #8 am: 10. Apr 2018, 18:55 »
Mollok has quite a few issues at the moment. The first of which is his vulnerability. As a monster, he is vulnerable to trample revenge damage, making him weak to pikes. He also has a tendency to run into hordes of units, get stuck and take massive amounts of damage. Of course, as a troll he stands out a lot more and can get easily singled out by archers and heroes. A couple of potential solutions to this would be:
 - Improved armour (especially to pikes and arrows)
 - Removing the trample (Aulë's suggestion)
 - Higher deceleration (Necro's suggestion)

However, Mollok also has a role problem. He is currently a mix of mass slayer and building destroyer. However, the Witch King and Khamul fulfil these roles already and do it much better than Mollok. This leads to Mollok not really having a proper use, which combined with his tendency to easily die, leads to him being underused. Also, from a logical point of view, it doesn’t make sense that Shatterer, a building killing move, is available for his sword as well. This is why I feel that Mollok’s abilities also need a rework.
Mollok would attack with his Sword, something that is unusual yet iconic for a troll, especially since he managed to give Aragorn a challenge with it. I felt like the Hammer was not needed, as Khamul is a more effective and unique Building Killer for Mordor.

Level 1: Consume – Mollok grabs a target unit (will not work on heroic units) and consumes it, regaining 50% of his health.
This ability immediately gives Mollok some longevity (obviously, the amount of health recovered and cooldown can be changed according to balance). It also has its origins in the book version of Return of the King:
Zitat
“The great troll-chief that smote him [Beregond] down bent over him, reaching out a clutching claw; for these fell creatures would bite the throats of those that they threw down”

Level 3: Rage – Mollok charges towards a target unit or hero, knocking over all units and heroes in his path.
The current idea for this ability (damage boost over time) would've led to Mollok being able to do too much (tank, support trolls, disrupt and damage). I've therefore changed it to this to enhance his disruption abilities. With his he can knock units and heroes, allowing your orcs and trolls to deal extra damage in that time. It could also be used against rows of archers to prevent them from attacking. The drawback to this ability would be Mollok accidentally charging into pikes, so the user would need to be careful about choosing a target.

Level 5: Troll Chieftain - Every 30 seconds, Mollok roars, improving the damage, armour and speed of nearby allied trolls by 15% for 15 seconds (passive). When activated, the target enemy troll is permanently converted to serve Mordor.
Currently, the trolls of Mordor are quite underused thanks to their weak armour. I feel like this ability would help to improve the trolls, while also giving Mollok a clear role in the faction. It also reinforces the idea of a troll chief that was present in the books at the Black Gate.

Level 7: Leap – Mollok leaps to the target area and creates a shock-wave that knocks back units and heroes in a medium radius and deals minor damage.
I’ve changed the effect of leap to reduce the Mass Slaying impact that Mollok would have (after all, Mordor already has the Witch King and Sauron). Instead, he is more of an disrupter, disrupting enemy forces and allowing your orcs to press the advantage. By knocking over an enemy army, the ability allows your trolls to move unobstructed for a small time as well, supporting Mollok's role as a troll leader. However, it is a dangerous ability as, once the army recovers, Mollok is left surrounded, and so it would need to be used carefully. This ability also references Mollok’s appearance in the films, where he manages to fight and knock over Aragorn.

Level 10: Assault Troll -  Mollok temporarily summons three trolls from the Trollshaws, with one troll wielding each weapon.
This ability is staying mainly because it reinforces Mollok’s role as a troll leader. By having each troll have one weapon, it can be more versatile (but won’t be immediately devastating when combined with Troll Chieftain’s bonus as you won’t be able to immediately destroy massive armies)

Overall, I have reworked Mollok into a troll supporter and unit disruptor with minor tank abilities. Both Troll Support and Tank are roles that are currently not in Mordor. I hope that this combined with improved armour would be enough to make him more worthwhile. I look forward to hearing your opinions!
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Jun 2018, 17:06 von OakenShield224 »

Julio229

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #9 am: 10. Apr 2018, 19:14 »
I really like your suggestion, Oak! It also has quite similar changes to ones I had thought for Mollok, which is quite nice (the level 10, for example) :P

Congratulations!


AulëTheSmith

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #10 am: 11. Apr 2018, 11:05 »
I like your suggestion Oak!  xD I would certainly recruit Mollock more frequently in this way. I agree in every aspect :)
My only concern is: is it better to increase the armor or maybe totally removed trample ability as proposed at the beginning of this thread? By removing it you are sure that the troll chieftan would not plunk himself into enemy army anymore, wasting his potential (and cost) in a suicide mission  [ugly]

OakenShield224

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #11 am: 11. Apr 2018, 18:06 »
Thanks for the support Aulë!
I wondered about whether to remove the trampling ability. While that would help, it still doesn't remove his overall vulnerability, as he can still be easily singled out by archers and heroes. However, I'll keep that idea in consideration while seeing what others say about the proposal.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #12 am: 12. Apr 2018, 16:15 »
I agree with the shift to Troll Supporter in his role, even though I disagree with the statement that trolls are underused. I really like the new leap idea, I would even suggest that it deal next to no damage but instead slow down knocked back units for a certain duration. If we consider all Leap-like abilities we have Gimli's that unlocks at level three but has a smaller radius and Rogash, which is meant as a level 5 ability and deals damage. I think this additional effect would balance the fact that it is a level 7 ability.

Finally, I would like to change my initial proposal regarding the trample. I have had a lot of time to toy with Rogash, and it seems that in order to balance his high armor against trample revenge damage, EA gave him an extremely quick deceleration. I believe that could be the key to fixing this problem once and for all, as with a quick deceleration mollok would take minimal damage from trampling but at the same time avoid becoming too powerful.
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OakenShield224

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #13 am: 14. Apr 2018, 18:51 »
That was the idea with the Leap. I didn't want to make it such a powerful mass slaying tool, but I didn't want to remove it as it is an iconic ability and currently one of Mollok's best. The compromise was to massively reduce the damage, but increase the knockback radius, making it more a disruptive tool. This also keeps it unique when compared to Gimli's and Rogash's leap.

I definitely like the idea about the quick deceleration Necro. It could fix quite a few issues and is a good alternative to just improving Mollok's armour and health.

OakenShield224

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Re: Mollock,"King" of the Trolls
« Antwort #14 am: 10. Jun 2018, 17:07 »
I've updated my proposal with a new level 3 ability and Necro and Aule's proposals for improving his longevity. I've also slightly changed the formatting to make it easier to read.

As always, suggestions are welcome!