[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions
Aragorn and Gandalf the Grey improvements
Melkor Bauglir:
Well, this proposal is a little bit tuned down, I guess, but my points still stand and therefore I don't really agree with this concept. Its still a huge buff which would be essential for Gondor's theoretical strength and it would appear ludicrously late in the game seemingly out of nowhere (and having "Final Stand" before the ghosts would be an anachronism), which is not the thing usually described as a small buff or "nice to have"-addition (except of course the reincluded fiefdoms ;)).
Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Adrigabbro:
--- Zitat von: Hamanathnath am 29. Mär 2016, 15:39 ---But I agree with Adrigabbro. Aragorn is already one of most useful heroes in the game. I would say that Gandalf does need more attention right now, but I'll be honest, I can't really think of something that will fix the problem with Gandalf. His High Risk/High Reward play style was something I would say he always had, so maybe it really isn't problem.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, I know it is controversial, but I've always thought than Gandalf, especially when he is The White, should have some kind of leadership, so that he would still be usefull even when he retreats in the middle of your army. I know he got that leadership from the ring of fire and the latter is carried by Cirdan in Edain, but I can't help feeling unsatisfied by the absence of leadership.
The first concern would be : what leadership could he use, since Gondor is already full of different leaderships ? And wouldn't it be too overpowered? Well, there is one leadership that is currently not in Edain yet and that is the embodyment of Gandalf the White, in my opinion: a debuff nullifyer, i.e. all enemy debuffs around Gandalf the White are nullifyied. It would be kind of a reverse Nazgul leadership. To balance it, Faramir leadership could be turned down, and in the same time the Ranger camp could be cheaper, so that buying Faramir is still a thing (it would give more credits to Rangers by the way, they are rarely used).
The second concern is: Gandalf already got 5 abilities, most of very iconic. Well, it may be a matter of preference, but I think he doesn't really need the light ray that much. I can very well see a leadership replacing this ability.
Tell me what you think please.
Melkor Bauglir:
--- Zitat ---Well, there is one leadership that is currently not in Edain yet and that is the embodyment of Gandalf the White, in my opinion: a debuff nullifyer, i.e. all enemy debuffs around Gandalf the White are nullifyied. It would be kind of a reverse Nazgul leadership.
--- Ende Zitat ---
If I am not misaken, this is impossible for technical reasons.
(The thing that nullifies the leaderships is something called an "Anti-Category" which is present in the Nazgûls' debuffs. Edit: Correctly speaking it is an entry inside their .ini which is an additional description of their aura, but I guess this is just for the one's really interested in this^^ *Edit end* Now all leaderships carry the line "IgnoreIfAntiCategoryActi ve = Yes" which results in them being shut down once the unit also suffers from an AntiCategory. I have zero idea what happens, when you add the same line to the Nazgûls' debuffs, but even if it would nullify their debuffs (which I am not certain, it will) it is still a regular AntiCategory, meaning all friendly leadership should be gone as well. Again, one needs to test this a little more in depth, but I am pretty sure it won't work as intended. Sorry.)
Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
PS: From a technical point of view, you never have to sacrifice a button for a passive ability. Practically everytime this is usefull (in that complex passive abilities require a certain explaining) or serves the balance (in that a leadership is of course an ability, meaning it should cost a slot), but the slot in itself is EVERYTIMES not necessary. If it's just for really small buffs (like Gloin being able (still?) to attack fortresses or Zaphragor healing really fast), this can just as well be done via their recruting text or somewhere else.
Therefore, if Gandalf the White would, say disable fear effects / make nearby allies resistant to fear, this wouldn't take away a slot, it could just be mentionend in the spellbook power. I don't really know, what the Team thinks about this, but since there are certain effects (enemies fearing Sauron and Nazgûl, the leadership of Gandalf the Blessed (definitely the wrong name, only know the german word right now; I'm talking about his bright Ring form xD), ...) that do not appear directly inside the hero's palantir, this might be an option.
DrHouse93:
--- Zitat von: ziqing am 29. Mär 2016, 21:49 ---The idea of yours, in my understanding, is to give Aragorn the role of leader instead of lone warrior while he is mounted, right?
--- Ende Zitat ---
Exactly.
@Melkor, the problem is that, ironically, Aragorn from level 7 and forth is not so efficient in hero killing as he is at lower levels. When he becomes Aragorn the Heir, he loses the Knife Throw, which, together with his impressive damage, is what makes him (and Celeborn and Eowyn as well) an awesome hero killer: the capability of dealing heavy damage to an hero even if he's running away. At its place, he gains Brego, which is a useful ability, sure, but I think that throwing a knife at an enemy is more efficient than chasing him rushing inside enemy troops, and I really can't see Aragorn at level 7 used as a scout with Brego. Also, the Elendil/Demand of the King abilities aren't so useful in late game: when you have higher levels heroes and units upgrades, they can deal a lot of damage to Aragorn before he's able to cast one of the two skills (since the casting time is quite long). Furthermore, Demand of the King won't certainly kill an escaping enemy hero, and as Elite Kryptic said, it's kinda repetitive, since Gondor has already access to the Army of the Dead through the spellbook.
That's why I'd like to give to Aragorn a dual role on higher levels: when mounted he becomes a little more tank and supporter (therefore making his Brego ability more useful and giving Aragorn more useful skills), but when on foot he keeps his menacing hero killing skills. Of course, to balance this out, Faramir's and Dol Amroth soldiers leadership could be slightly debuffed, but I'd prefer not, because there are even more powerful things in the mod right now (e.g. all the Mordor debuffs combined with their huge numbers can make it almost impossible to defeat it. The same applies with a fully upgraded army of Dwarves with Thorin's leadership and a lot of Khazad-dum Veterans. Not to mention Nenya's Invulnerability, the Star of Ealendil or the Enchanted River, which can decide battles when combined with Silverthorne arrows)
Hamanathnath:
--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 29. Mär 2016, 23:06 ---
Well, I know it is controversial, but I've always thought than Gandalf, especially when he is The White, should have some kind of leadership, so that he would still be usefull even when he retreats in the middle of your army. I know he got that leadership from the ring of fire and the latter is carried by Cirdan in Edain, but I can't help feeling unsatisfied by the absence of leadership.
The first concern would be : what leadership could he use, since Gondor is already full of different leaderships ? And wouldn't it be too overpowered? Well, there is one leadership that is currently not in Edain yet and that is the embodyment of Gandalf the White, in my opinion: a debuff nullifyer, i.e. all enemy debuffs around Gandalf the White are nullifyied. It would be kind of a reverse Nazgul leadership. To balance it, Faramir leadership could be turned down, and in the same time the Ranger camp could be cheaper, so that buying Faramir is still a thing (it would give more credits to Rangers by the way, they are rarely used).
The second concern is: Gandalf already got 5 abilities, most of very iconic. Well, it may be a matter of preference, but I think he doesn't really need the light ray that much. I can very well see a leadership replacing this ability.
Tell me what you think please.
--- Ende Zitat ---
I don't know if you ever have played the first Battle for Middle Earth game, but Gandalf used to have a very powerful leadership, but was cut from Battle for Middle Earth 2 (replaced by the ability to change stances).
As for the suggestion, I am totally for Gandalf having a leadership. A Debuff Nullifier would be interesting, but I would suggestion just making Allies fearless, which I think would fit Gandalf's role in the Movies (and I'd assume the books).
What ability would be removed for this leadership? None. My suggestion would be to put it as an extra benefit on the Spellbook Power, Gandalf the White. This would allow Gandalf to keep all his abilities, and I don't think not allowing Gandalf the Grey to have the Leadership is bad.
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