[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions

Aragorn and Gandalf the Grey improvements

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Melkor Bauglir:
@DrHouse93:
I'm afraid, you didn't really get my point. It is not about the fear of making Gondor too strong and I definitely understand the idea of giving Aragorn a more supportive nature (at least on later levels), since he is basically the free people's greatest hope and their prime leader once he acts as Gondor's king.
My problem I have which this is solely the fact that these abilities would come extremely late while being extraordinarily powerfull. Not this sounds like a dumb thing to say since spells like Word of Power are pretty strong and come pretty late -that's again not my point. However, spell's like WoP don't come out of nowhere: Gandalf is a mass-slayer directly from the start, as much as Galadriel has a supportive nature, therefore ultimately justifying her final ability. Aragorn however starts (and stays long times!) which no attributes resembling those of a support and technically he only deserves this from level 7 onwards.
I guess, I'll repeat my Thorin example: The problem is that Gondor's gameplay is severely changed after a discrete point in time which is not at all guaranteed to happen at all in an ordinary game. For example, Boromir's and Faramir's leaderships are fairly reliable because you're given access to them pretty fast. Owning a level 10 Aragorn is nothing easily achieved, yet it would give Gondor a hefty buff.
This is just bad gameplay-design, because it's basically the famous "reach point A to win the game" and in this case it's a point which really comes out of nowhere.

Let's make a counterexample to make this clearer: Suppose Aragorn would be a hero-killer- / support-hybrid from level 1 (not just Athelas^^). If both these roles got gradually stronger, I wouldn't see something negative about it. Since this isn't the case, the points mentioned above do apply.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

DrHouse93:
Ok, now I get it^^

Personally, I see no problem on changing Aragorn's role later on, but I think that a nice mechanic to correctly show the "lone-but-heroes-and-later-units-supporter-warrior" nature of Aragorn can be found

I'll think about it^^

What do you rather think about my Gandalf "hero submod" concept?

Elite KryPtik:
Melkor Bauglir, your talking about Reach Point A to win, I'm afraid that is already present for most factions in the game independently of heroes. Once you have upgraded tower guards as Gondor, you have won. As Isengard, once you have upgraded uruk hai with captains and shieldbearers, you've won. As Dwarves, once you have Veterans of Khazad Dum and heroes with mithril, you've won. As Lorien, once you have Galadhrim with silverthorns, you've won. As Mordor, once you have Minas Morgul/Dol Guldur and call the horde, you've won. Do you see my point here? That's not even taking heroes into account at all. I do not understand your reasoning at all. Aragorn's current role ALREADY changes once he levels up, he just doesn't have many useful abilities for his supporting role. Even his heal skill isn't working properly, its supposed to heal all nearby units and heroes, but only affects heroes. We are just trying to get him an ability to actually make him useful as a unit supporter at level 10. Now, I do not agree with giving him a passive leadership, but I see no issue with an ability which buffs units for a set time and then has to recharge.

For my part, I totally agree with having Gandalf the White nullify debuffs if it can be accomplished in the engine.

Hamanathnath:
@DrHouse93:  I don't agree with many of the changes in your concept for Aragorn and Gandalf the Grey.

Aragorn:  Now I like your concept for Final Stand, though I think that adding it to just the Mount Form of Aragorn is a bit odd.  I know your are going for Unmounted Aragorn to be a Hero Killer, and Mounted to be a Supportive Hero, but still, Aragorn is already argueably the best hero killer in the game, so giving him Knife Throw Unmounted might be a little too much.  Another problem is that if you keep it Final Stand as Mounted only, the player can just use it, and then switch back Unmounted, where he will have access to both Anduril AND Knife Throw.  This would make him way too powerful in my opinion.

Glory of the Dunedain also seems like an ability that is not really needed.    Gondor has enough leaderships for their units, as well as Beregond's leadership for heroes, and if Final Stand is added along with this Ability, it will be too much.  If you want Aragorn to be more supportive while Mounted, he should keep his Elendil ability on his horse.  And if you don't think that's enough, maybe adding a debuff to Enemy Heroes to Elendil would be interesting, showing that they too also fear that ability, but not to the point where they will run away.

I will finish this post later, talking about Gandalf the Grey.  Ran out of time :P

DrHouse93:
Just wait a little. I'm modifying my main post for an improved version of Aragorn, who will have supportive skills from the beginning^^

EDIT: I've changed the main post, so it's more easy to read^^

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