[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Make Dale great again!

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Fredius:
Greetings everyone :),

Today I want to bring to you two suggestions that me and LordDainIronfoot have been thinking about for quite some time. These suggestion will be centered around the units of Dale, or rather, the heavy armor upgrade and the banner carrier (captain) of Dale.

DISCLAIMER
We are not asking the team to do this in the next version! We know there are other priorities at the moment, and that are more urgent matters to attend to; we just offer the team an idea that they could use for in the future, if they ever want to use it at all :)!

Suggestion 1: Heavy armor
Now onto the first suggestion. I must say that the design of the Dale units look beautifull, though there is one aspect about the Heavy Armor upgrade that disturbs us. If you look closely at the Non-Heavy Armor version of the Dale soldier, you can see that there is a part of mail showing on the bottom of the skirt:


This image shows us that the Dale soldier wears a mail shirt beneath his regular leather armor. However if we look at the Heavy Armored version of the Dale soldier, we can see that he has cast off his leather armor, and solely wears the mail shirt:


The leather armor has been removed when the Heavy Armor upgrade is purchased, which means that the Men of Dale are even less armored after the Heavy Amor upgrade is purchased :P! Dain and me have thought about some possibilities to give the heavy armored versions of the Dale units a nice and fitting design. What we found was a concept for the Dale warriors made by WETA, which will (in our opinion) fit perfectly:


Note that we are not proposing to use the helmet, but just the plate armor as shown in the concept art. This design will give the units of Dale an actual heavier armored version that fit in well with the regular armor, without sacrificing the leather armour they already wear xD. On the internet there are multiple artists who have drawn or modeled this version of the Dale armour, here are some more example pictures:




This ends the first suggestion.
________________________ ________________________ ___________________

Suggestion 2: Dale captain
The next suggestion is about the Captain of Dale, who, next to a regular warrior of Dale, looks like this:


Both me and Dain thought it would be very awesome if the captain would have a look that distinguishes him from the regular soldiers. He is a captain after all, and officers usually wear better and more expensive armor than the common footmen, just so that it is visible that they are from a higher rank in the military branch. Not to mention the fact that the captain of the Men of Lake-town clearly shows the difference between the regular soldier and the officer, while Dale does not. After discussing it a little while, me and Dain came up to a design that would give the captain a more “expensive” look. The captain would wear the heavy armor as was shown in the suggestion before, but combined with the helmet that is worn in this concept:


This helmet really appealed to us, and we saw it as a great solution to the captains helmet. The helmet, combined with the heavy armor (and a cape which is missing), looks like this, as made by the team of the Rise of Mordor mod:


This image, however, gives us another variant of the officers helmet, which is based on the Roman centurion helmet, and has a bigger brass than the helmet we proposed. Both helmets look great, and we like both equally.

This is where our proposals end. The reason that we wanted to do this proposals was that, first of all, the current heavy armor upgrade makes the Dale units look lighter armored than they used to before the upgrade. It would be like the Gondor soldiers starting with heavy armor, and after purchasing the heavy armor upgrade they would lose the plate and shoulder armor. This is ofcourse not very nice if you think about it :P.

The reason we wanted to change the captains design is so that his status compared to the regular footman is better reflected on his armor. Right now he looks exactly like the regular soldiers, save for being larger and having a bigger beard, which is funny because that was trait of chieftains of some barbarian tribes in the antiquity :P. Also the captain of the Men of Lake-town has plenty of differences with the common footman. Dale should have this too in our opinion :).

I hope you guys agree with our proposal, please state here if you are in favor or against this suggestion, and please explain your motives :P. Ofcourse if you have any other ideas please share them :).

With kind regards,

Fredius and LordDainIronfoot

lordoflinks:
Wow...
I like this idea a lot and am entirely in favorwith it.

VectorMaximus:
I really like the basic dale soldier's upgrade design, however I feel very iffy on the design of the captain's helm. While it would be very distinct, it just doesn't seem to fit for me, with the horizontal mane feeling awkward when I look at it. I feel like a design more along the lines of the helmet in this; . Obviously it would have to be reworked for Dale colors and accents, but I think it would fit. This is a period recreation Russian armor with a more unique and complex helmet design. Because of the fact that the Dale/Laketown designs in the movies are medieval Russia, I believe it would fit.
The captains would stick out, their faces being covered would make them identifiable from a distance, as well as affording the captains (generals as they are called in the mod) greater protection in battle, as they should by right of their rank. However, I am overall in favor of the proposal.

Dendrotheos:
My thoughts are mainly in favour. I think your point on the heavy armour is a solid one. The images provided appear to show that heavily armoured Dale soldiers move from having a mail undercoat beneat the leather hawberk to the mail on-top of the hawberk, which would be superfluous in a combat situation.
The advantages of mail as heavy armour provides a nice visual aid to the player to indicate that heavy armour has been purchased, but if this were to be retained, I think that it would be more fitting to have both layers mail or remove the under-layer of mail for the model that is not heavily armoured.
Concerning the new heavy armour design proposal, I think it looks good. Your proposed design would make the dale troops look more imposing and potentially more dangerous. From an authentic and practical point of view, the concept appears to show the armour made from soft iron or boiled leather, which would actually not be nearly as affective as mail, but it certainly looks better than standard un-armoured leather jerkin.
To re-iterate, I think this would work well as a visual representation of heavy armour. I think the un-armoured version that ET has made certainly shouldn't change, however, as they have a destinct Edain look to it that makes it different to other mods and gives it a character separate to the films, while having the same feel. The current design does have a destinct feel to it that is unique to Edain, which is very good, but I agree some tweeks in the far future wouldn't go amiss.

Concerning the Dale captain, I'm going to agree with VectorMaximus; I'm not entirely convinced by the centurion helmet. The captain should certainly follow the heavy armour scheme and have some feature that disinguishes him from the normal soldiers, I agree, and a centurion helm gives off all the right connotations of command over a small company, but it does not appear, to me at least (I'm sure others will have a different view entirely), to quite fit with the same direction that was brought with the final Weta costumes. The Dale forces, and to the same extent the Lake Town troops, gave off a Slavic feel that was matched with the snowy and rustic wooden feel of Laketown in the trilogy, which does not quite mix well with Post-Marian reform Roman uniform. I'm not helping much here, I admit, but I think a bit more delving into Magyar or other Slavic helmet designs might be a bit for fitting here for the captain's helm.

These are just my thoughts and you're all welcome to rip apart my arguments and show that I haven't a clue what I'm talking about  ;) I basically agree with your first suggestion, although I do think there is a side in support of the Edain's design even though there should be some changes, if only minor. Your second design is where I have slightly different views.

I'd say, overall, that i'm in favour of the proposal  :)

Leri_weill:
Absolutely in favor of the Rise of Mordor design :)

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