[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Angmar Suggestions

New Angmar Ringhero

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The_Necromancer0:
Angmar is anything but a loyalty faction, just because the Witch-King demands doesn't mean that he actually gets it. Gulzar, Zaphragor are the only truly loyal beings under his command. As I previously stated, the sorcerers seek power, the wights and werewolves are beasts under his command. The Men of Rhudaur are also quite loyal, but they are only a minor force which can easily be overcome by fear. The Men of Carn Dum are merely here to gain power and wealth just like Helegwen and you guessed it Mornamarth. And if we're going for lore friendliness:

--- Zitat ---The Witch-king knows well that while Mornamarth is a great asset, he is not truly loyal to anyone and is best kept on a short leash. For his part, Mornamarth burns to rule Angmar himself one day, but for now he bides his time and builds his power by destroying Angmar's enemies.
--- Ende Zitat ---

Indeed, the system is quite similar to Boromir's however it does bare its fair share of differences. In addition this is completely lore wise, as you can clearly see by the quote provided above. Angmar may be ruled by an Iron Hand straight from the start but most are either there against their will or they are here because the Witch-King is currently the strongest, if somebody stronger arises they will follow him in hopes of gaining more power. As you can see that was clearly indicated in the initial proposal but decided against later because of how much of a disadvantage it became.

As for your counter proposal, isn't that quite similar to Imladris's Ring Hero system? It's a perfectly acceptable proposal, although not my favorite, I much prefer the eternal winter idea.

EDIT: Posted before seeing Oakenshield's post
@Oakenshield: Will take care of that

The Witch-King of Angmar:
You want to give the one ring of power and throw the witch-king of his kindom(souron's second in command)to take Angmar itself to a character that not even in the books by using an already used ringhero system, if you manage to convince the team to do this idea, then you are using black magic [ugly], the witch-king is literally the only character from the books that we know in Angmar, the whole basic concept of Angmar refers to the witch-king's power acquisition as Ealendril mentioned.


--- Zitat ---Dont forget that the Witch King is the central person of the faction and the whole basic concept refers to his power acquisition. It would be mechanically poor when the core figure of the faction is replaced at once by another hero, and thereby becomes unimportant. These are conceptual and game mechanical elements that must be adhered to.
--- Ende Zitat ---

I understand your motivation behind your idea and i know it will give the player the choice of what to do with the ring but look at the cost you paied, the faction core is literally destroyed.

Having one ring hero using unique system is more than enough for every faction, if gondor, lothorien and arnor have more than one ring hero/system does not mean Angmar has to be like them.

Its true that the ring system i suggested is similer to imladris's one execpt that elrond is not part of the ring battalion unlike the witch-king, however i find it a good trade to fix the little lore problem that seems to bother some players how the witch-king uses the ring, however i dont mind the current system too.
 

The_Necromancer0:
As long as Edain is concerned the heroes of Angmar are as canon as anything else to my eyes, so the lore argument doesn't apply here since Angmar is mostly made up of stuff that doesn't exist since there was so little in the books about them. Also, you should be careful with quotes, here Ealendril wasn't referring to the idea of a secondary ring hero but to the idea of having Sauron be recruitable  once the ring is gained "another hero" refers to Sauron. Here is the complete quote:


--- Zitat ---Dont forget that the Witch King is the central person of the faction and the whole basic concept refers to his power acquisition. It would be mechanically poor when the core figure of the faction is replaced at once by another hero, and thereby becomes unimportant. These are conceptual and game mechanical elements that must be adhered to. Therefore there will be no Sauron in Angmar.
--- Ende Zitat ---

As for the faction core, you should have no worries. At the beginning of the debate it was indeed considered to restrict the recruitments but that has since been decided against as I previously stated. The core of Angmar's faction is not the Witch King, he is the central hero of the faction, that is not the same although I wouldn't be able to tell you what the core of Angmar is.

The base of this idea, which got me to propose a secondary ring hero for this faction as opposed to another, is that Angmar is meant to oppose Arnor/Gondor which both have two Ring Heroes.

The Witch-King of Angmar:
Wut?, i never said Ealendril was talking about mormarath i know he was talking about sauron but what does it matter? what he said applies also to mormarath as ringhero as well, the concept of his words is what important, i think you misunderstanded my point, the core of angmar is not the witch-king? you think that because of the possiblity you talked about of his army betraying him? i dont think you and me have the same idea of what a core of faction is.

 "It would be mechanically poor when the core figure of the faction is replaced at once by another hero, and thereby becomes unimportant" tell me friend, when mormarath takes the ring and take over the witch-king's kindom isnt he "replacing him thereby making him unimportant"?


--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 17. Jan 2017, 21:59 ---The base of this idea, which got me to propose a secondary ring hero for this faction as opposed to another, is that Angmar is meant to oppose Arnor/Gondor which both have two Ring Heroes.

--- Ende Zitat ---
That doesnt mean to copy gameplay mechanics from other faction, further more, Angmar was never meant to be only an evil counter part of arnor its much more than that, it has its own unique Identity as every other faction so it doesnt matter if arnor have 2 ring heroes.

OakenShield224:
The idea of the faction is of different groups trying to become more powerful (even at the expense of others) with one strong figure tying them all together. Pretty much everyone in Angmar (apart from Wights and Wolves obviously) decided to follow the WK because he was more powerful than Arnor and could therefore offer them more. It wasn't his name or his status as a Nazgul that made people follow him. It was his power and the opportunities it presented. Put it this way: If you were a soldier working for the Witch King and then another figure turned up who is even more powerful, would you stick with the Witch King or go to the more powerful ruler so it would turn out better for you?

I understand what you are saying about a key figure being replaced by someone else. However, would you class Boromir as the most important or prominent hero of Gondor? I'd probably give that role to Aragorn or Gandalf. However, Boromir can be given the Ring and in that moment, he becomes the most important hero of the faction as everything is focused on him. In Necro's plan, the Witch King would still be important due to the threat of his return (represented by the timer). Some extra effect could be added when Witch King returns (e.g. station units around all buildings to keep control and prevent rebellion) or as a passive while Mornamarth is ruler (not sure about what this could be although I'm sure we can think of something).

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