[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

The Dain Dilemma

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-DJANGO-:

--- Zitat ---If it is the common opinion that Erebor and Iron Hills have too many weaknesses due to the ability swap, we will most likely find a solution to fix this and keep the roles at the same time.
--- Ende Zitat ---
- I appreciate that.

I don't think it is impossible to balance Erebor and Iron Hills keeping the Dain's roles as they are now. But imo it is the way more difficult road to go! Strengthen Iron Hills tankiness and Erebors attack strength just more and more can end on a very thin line between being still useless or overpowered.
E.g.: Iron Hills gets more tankiness to compensate their slow speed; now they can still be (just too slow) not enough tank resulting in being outranged or being torn apart whilst retreating - or they are that armor buffed that they just can't be killed no more.
Same goes for Erebor; i compare them in the following to Lorien (the Elvish attack faction): while Lorien has high attack, low amor and speed to retreat or surprise the enemy, Erebor would have great attack buffs but low amor and "normal" slow dwarven speed. I think this combination is not that great and difficult to balance because they can turn out so strong that nobody fights them in melee but also outranges them to the ground.
All in all i see many difficulties in finding a balaced line here, while strengthen their basic roles. Atm these efforts made Iron Hills and Erebor lose a great amount of their flexibility. In my opinion it would be way more easier to give Iron Hills exclusive and "difficult/late to get" Speed abilities, like late Hero abilities, Ram Riders...
; while Erebor in the same way a few Amor abilities that would fit to the standard dwraven tankiness. I would NOT give them speed, that would make them exactly like Lorien! Another idea which is being discussed in the German Section and could be taken into consideration, is to distinguish the Upgrades (Blades/Amor..) of each Edain faction a bit more (logically only when all factions are released). That could mean for Erebor getting a bit more amor through the Amor-Upgrade of the Dwarfs.

But of course i'm open to be surprised by the Edain Team with a balanced solution that strengthens Erebors & Iron Hills basic role.  ;)

kingsjewel:


--- Zitat von: lordoflinks am 20. Aug 2016, 23:04 ---
--- Zitat von: kingsjewel am 20. Aug 2016, 22:44 ---
--- Zitat von: lordoflinks am 20. Aug 2016, 10:17 ---Is there any official word on this topic?
And what do people think of replacing Young Dain's Barracks ability with Thorin's company as a summon?

--- Ende Zitat ---
I think the problem is that Thorin and the company are available in an another dwarf faction. It wouldn't be 'too much'?

--- Ende Zitat ---
I think it is fine myself, as I think it fits Young Dain better than magically calling warriors from The Blue Mountains and Erebor. Could it be considered if they weren't in their regal armor? Of course I am fine if someone can come up with a better ability for him.

--- Ende Zitat ---
]

Unfortunately I really don't know a strong ability like Thorin's. Thorin was greedy and he wanted the Arkenstone, these are the base of his abilities. The young Dáin in the movie was a warrior and a leader of an army, just that is what we know.

Maybe can he summon his war chariot or the siege weapons of the extended version?

lordoflinks:
I have added a poll to the topic in order to gain statistical results for the team and get a batter appreciation of which solution people are in favour of.
Please vote.
EDIT: I know this is a lot to ask, but if anyone speaks German at all, do you think you could throw this idea up in their section of the forum. I think it is best if we get both sides perspective on this issue.
In addition the difference between the 2nd and 3rd option of the poll is that the 3rd proposes to leave "Lord of the Iron Hills" and "Baruk Khazad!" as they currently are.

lordoflinks:
I seem to have made a grave error.
When I writing my suggestion I had presumed both versions of Dain were able to summon the barracks, which is not so, only Young Dain is. Another error is that while the barracks is enhanced into the fortress, the summon King Dain gets is not enhanced by the ring at all. Hence I have updated my OP post to reflect this. Also can the person who voted other specify what 'other' is for them.
I also would like the team to know in light of the above information I support reverting the abilities  completely, and have changed the poll so I am counted in said category as my initial vote has been tainted by a misunderstanding on my part and is invalid and does not reflect my true opinion. 
Also as the Team shows little interests in this I have trying to change it in my personal copy of the mod, and have been running into problems, if anyone could help see here:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33837.0.html 

Julio229:
Wanted to add this to the Dáin discussion, I planned to put it on General suggestions but it is all about Dáin, so I'll put it here:

I wanted to say something about Ring Heroes. Currently, I feel most of them are awesome, and I can understand the Witch King not having new abilities because of his debuffs to the enemy, but I don't feel the same about Dwarven Heroes. Currently, when I play Iron Hills, I try to avoid taking the ring at all costs, because even if it is a defensive faction, he feels like he's only useful for Fortress defense because of his 50% losses if he's not near an enemy building. His other abilities are awesome, and being able to train units from the Hall Of Warriors instantly is great, but I don't know, maybe Dáin should have fewer debuffs. Ring Heros are, if my beliefs are correct, meant to turn the tide in a game and give advantages, it is strange when you can't use this Hero except when he stays at the Fortress, making him as static as the Scholars in 3.8.1 Imladris and Erestor if I recall correctly, that were always in the Fortress.

Just my opinion, though. I believe normal Dáin's abilities should be reversed to 4.3, and I wanted to add this about his Ring Hero form. Anyways, The Edain Team always does a great job, and I love that!

EDIT: To add something more, I don't feel Erebor Ring Dáin is like Iron Hills, his ability to double allied units damage it's great, and he is going to be with the army anyway in his current role, so he's not as hampered (I believe that's the word, correct me if I'm wrong) as Iron Hills Dáin.

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