[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

An alternative for Thorin's Company's regal armors

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Walküre:
I respect your views and the passion you poured into this proposal, but I shall remain adamant in my own opinion. As I repeated numerous times, lore and strategy are not what I question. My major argument in opposition to this concept is another one, substantially different from lore or strategic points, which you never addressed in your replies. The idea of bringing the most important heroes of the Blue Mountains (namely, the whole Dwarven Company) in another faction (albeit the temporary connotation of the spell and the references to the lore) is exactly what I find ill-conceived in principle. In light of this issue, the comparison I made concerning Galadriel or Sauron does represent a valid reasoning, alongside the lore accuracy of such hypothetical summoning spells; because lore arguments could well be brought as proper points in favour of that hypothesis (and, I would say, even the cinematographic atmosphere). Game-based uniqueness is eventually what your suggestions might disrupt. The fact that each faction is supposed to retain most of its own unique concepts as its exclusive possession can legitimately be considered one of the customary principles of the Edain Mod.

As for the hero-battalion system, you seem not to have grasped the exact reasons at the root of my position as well: I never stated that the Dwarven Company (whose characterisation is centred on the unity theme equally) doesn't deserve this feature, or that the implementation you propose wouldn't do justice to the lore and the films. Since a good faction already disposes of this possibility and an evil faction of its counterpart, it would go against differentiation and uniqueness to have a third replica of the hero-battalion feature in the game. And I would add that the Fellowship of the Ring is quite a different of a case from the Nazgûl, as the latter case basically consists of the repetition of the same model (while you can play an extreme diverse set of heroes with the Fellowship). And, the Fellowship belongs to the exceptional realm of Ring systems; something that makes the concept even more unique in itself and that convinces me of the necessity to keep it so (without other replicas whatsoever).

As I explained, the very inclusion of Thorin's armour was a compromise born from very divergent views, when part of the Edain Community and the Edain Team was not very sure to make it an actual concept of the game. One is hardly ever fully satisfied by compromises, but the value of a compromise is exactly due to the lack of other reasonable alternatives (and of the existence of a heated plurality of opinions).

lordoflinks:
I will just throw an idea out there:
What if Iron Hill's Dain's ultimate ability summoned Thorin's company for a brief time, in a similar manner to the Army of the Dead lv10 Aragon has, the company charging from Dain in a straight line for 30s or so. The barracks would be moved back King Dain.

This means the iconic moment of Thorin's charge can be captured and Iron Hills Dain can have an unique ability rather than summoning units or building a fortress (The fortress should be with Erabor as the center of Dwarf Culture).

Bombur:

--- Zitat ---which you never addressed in your replies
--- Ende Zitat ---
Yes I did. Several times too.


--- Zitat ---Since a good faction already disposes of this possibility and an evil faction of its counterpart, it would go against differentiation and uniqueness to have a third replica of the hero-battalion feature in the game.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Oh, OK, I see now: one for Evil and one for Good. I can understand that. That being said, on another hand, there are more good factions than evil factions, so I wouldn't think this is a real problem (also in my mind, the fact that they would only be temporary makes the feature less strong, and thus compensates the ring nature of the Fellowship).

Bombur:
So, yeah, the Fellowship was soooooooooo unique that absolutely no one, not even the second most company on Tolkien's books, central to the Hobbit could share their mechanic.

But now the Three Hunters can have it too. Yeah, it sure makes a lot of sense ...

Walküre:
And as I tried to explain to you tons of times (with little avail, at this point), the mechanics themselves of the Fellowship are not at the root of the issue, as I never opposed to the propriety of this system in principle. What you seek to do is basically bringing all the fundamental heroes (of whom the leader is part) of a faction into another faction, just to have the royal armours of BOTFA implemented. This without mentioning that your hypothetical spell would not even be an ultimate spell (as the magnitude of the heroes involved would instead require) and all members of the Dwarven Company should rely on a greatly diminished Palantír of abilities; the latter doesn't conform to characters of this sort at all. Have I left something out? Ah, I forgot, this whole reasoning is also dependent on the eternal problematic of the shared Dwarven spellbook and the Dwarves' subfaction system.

Issues you don't really seem willing to get to grips with.

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