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Autor Thema: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes  (Gelesen 832 mal)

Char

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Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« am: 15. Feb 2017, 21:38 »
The Necromancer:

The Necromancer is the central backbone of the Mordor faction and is directly responsible for dictating its strength. His strength will affect how powerful the Ringwraiths and Mouth of Sauron are and what powers they have access to and how much damage they deal. The Necromancer can be recruited from Fortress when the appropriate upgrade is purchased. The Necromancer gains strength by killing enemies but gets experience at a much lower rate. However, his lieutenants are able to aid him in gaining experience when they kill enemies as well. Gaining the Power of Ages Past Palantir Power will no longer transform him into Gorthaur but will allow him to transform into his more powerful Fire form gaining access to stronger abilities and will increase his damage and reduce the recharge time of his abilities. 


Necromancer – Shadow Form

●Level 0: Toggle Fire Form (Slot One) Requires Power of Ages Past. This allows Sauron to utilize his true power in his disembodied form, transforming into a fiery form.
●Level 0: Sauron the Necromancer - Sauron grows stronger through defeating his enemies as well as when his generals defeat enemies. He cannot die but when he has his health reduced to zero, he will wander the world as a shadow that is unable to attack or activate abilities. After a long duration, he will recover and become usable again. The Nazgul and Mouth of Sauron have their powers directly tied to the Necromancer, as he increases in levels and power so do they. (Slot Two)
●Level 1: Shifting Darkness - Sauron becomes a thin shadow and is able to rapidly travel to target location. (Slot Three)
Level 3: Influence of Sauron – Nearby allies gain +50% damage and 50% armor. In addition, they are also immune to fear effects. (Slot Four)
●Level 7: Shadow Blast - Sauron gathers his billowing shadows in upon himself and unleashes his essence in stronger version of his normal attack. This crushing assault deals large area of effect damage and has a stronger knockback effect. (Slot Five)
Inspiration: Drawn from the scene in the Hobbit where Gandalf battles Sauron as a shadow, when Gandalf produces a shield of light Sauron is able to overcome and crush it by expending more of his strength.
●Level 10: Devouring Darkness - Sauron pulls target unit into himself and suffocates it in his darkness dealing insane damage to heroes or instantly killing a unit. (Slot Six)
Inspiration: This ability would be similar to the way Sauron kills Thrain in the Hobbit Desolation of Smaug. This ability would be very unique and also very useful for destroying potential siege weapons or monsters, not just heroes.


The Necromancer (Fire Form)

●Level 0: Toggle Shadow Form – Requires Power of Ages Past. This allows Sauron to utilize his true power in his disembodied form, transforming back into Shadow form.
● Level 0: Sauron the Necromancer - Sauron grows stronger through defeating his enemies as well as when his generals defeat enemies. He cannot die but when he has his health reduced to zero, he will wander the world as a shadow that is unable to attack or activate abilities. After a long duration, he will recover and become usable again. The Nazgul and Mouth of Sauron have their powers directly tied to the Necromancer, as he increases in levels and power so do they. (Slot Two)
● Level 3: Influence of Sauron – Nearby allies gain +50% damage and 50% armor. In addition, they are also immune to fear effects. (Slot Four)
●Level 7; Crushing Will - Sauron uses his infernal power to suspend a hero above the ground, completely subject to his mercy. The hero is incapable of making any form of action for three seconds. (Slot Four)
Inspiration: When Sauron lifts Gandalf from the ground and suspends him against the wall of Dol Guldur. This would be useful for temporarily disabling a hero or unit.
●Level 9: Wrath Unleashed - Sauron tears aside his veil of shadow to expose the void he has become surrounded by the fires of his power. Appearing as an erupting eye of flame, Sauron unleashes waves of flame, as he unleashes successive waves they become faster and faster. Each of the five waves erupt outward dealing huge damage to enemies. (Slot Five)
Inspiration: Slight variation on the current ultimate for the Necromancer. This ability is based on the scene where Sauron reveals himself to Gandalf. He manifests as the Eye of Sauron unleashing a barrage of expanding blasts of flame, arguably one of the coolest moments in the Hobbit. Even if the damage was severely reduced or harmed allies as well, I think the use of multiple fire waves is more impactful than just a singular small wave of flame.
●Level 10: Infernal Majesty: Sauron releases all of his power to manifest as a towering titan wreathed in flame. Nearby enemies cower in fear before he unleashes his wrath in a massive flaming explosion. This ability will expend all of the Necromancer’s strength and force him to retreat to the fortress in a similar manner as if he were slain. (Slot Six)
Inspiration: This ability has the most unique origin of the suggested abilities, it is a hybrid of two different ideas. The first is Sauron’s final incarnation in the Hobbit movies when the Ringwraiths are revived and Sauron directly confronts Galadriel. Here he appears as a giant shadowy figure with fiery eyes and a giant flaming aura. The other origin for where I have gained some of the idea, is from the Heroes of Middle Earth MOBA game where Sauron’s ultimate ability causes him to manifest as a giant fiery shadow and damage all enemy heroes across the map. I think visually this ability would be amazing and strength wise it is also incredibly powerful.

[Galadriel, Gandalf and Elrond standing before Sauron’s might]

Sauron, The Lord of the Rings: [Give the Necromancer the One Ring]
Level 2: Terror Incarnate - Sauron extinguishes the light of hope in the heart of foes and replaces it with fear and despair. Enemies flee in terror.
Level 3: The Lord of the Rings - Sauron grows stronger through defeating his enemies as well as when his generals defeat enemies. He cannot die but when he has his health reduced to zero, he will wander the world as a shadow that is unable to attack or activate abilities. After a long duration, he will recover and become usable again. The Nazgul and Mouth of Sauron have their powers directly tied to the Necromancer, as he increases in levels and power so do they. (Slot Two)
Level 4: The Dark Lord - Nearby units are awed by their dark master dealing 60% increased damage and taking 20% less damage from enemies. They are also immune to all forms of fear effects.
Level 5: - Power of the One Ring: Sauron goes into a frenzy gaining 100% attack speed for a short duration.
Level 6: Burning grasp - Sauron grabs target enemy hero and lifts them into the air. His burning power will reduce but the strongest to ash. Otherwise deals immense damage.
Inspiration: Sauron uses this method to kill the famed elven general Gil-Galad in the Battle of the Last Alliance and also attempts to use a similar technique to kill Isuldur, when the Ring is cut from his hand.
Level 7: Titanic Blow - Sauron shatters the ground with a huge two handed blow from his mace causing a small eruption of earth and fire knocking back nearby enemies.
Level 9 – Massive Eruption - Sauron uses the power of the Ring to cause Mount Doom to erupt.
Causes molten debris to rain down on target area. (Fires of Doom)
Level 10 - Wrath of Sauron: Sauron channels all of his anger, his hatred and his will to dominate all life into the ring and then unleashes a cataclysmic fiery explosion outwards killing everything within the radius. Inspiration: A massive fiery word of power befitting the Lord of the Rings, large red explosion centred on Sauron plus the outward ring of flame. If I am not mistaken, earlier iterations of Gandalf the Black had his ultimate ability causing a more fiery and visually awesome effect whereas now it is darker and more shadowy.

-Other Heroes- 
The Witch King of Angmar - Remains unchanged.
Dark Marshal - Stays the same
Shadow Lord - Stays the same

 
Khamul the Black Easterling
Level 1: Mount/Dismount
Level 2: Khamul's Presence; Khamul weakens the armour and damage of nearby enemies by 10% and this amount increases by 5% for each nearby by Nazgul. In addition, the mere presence of Khamul slowly damages buildings over time as their wood rots and metal rusts.
Level 4: Corruption - Unleash a dark pulse of magic at an enemy building, weakening it and preventing it from action for two minutes.
Level 7: Lieutenant of Dol Guldur - Khamul summons three Castellans of Dol Guldur to fight beside him for a medium duration.
Level 10: Scourge of the East - Requires Sauron, Lord of the Rings Level 10. Khamul summons dark magic around himself that slowly kills everything around him including enemies and allies. The ground and flesh begin to slowly blacken and then rapidly burn as it disintegrates into nothing. Deals damage based on the units maximum health across its duration and Khamul is unable to move. 
Visual - Units slowly blackening and ashes rising off them in a red black colour.   



The Mouth of Sauron [Virtually the same; few visual and name changes]

Sorcery
Level 1: Toggle Sorcery/Treacherous Words
Level 1: Mount – Mounts or dismounts his dark horse.
Level 4: Sorcerous Bolt - Uses dark magic to unleash a blast of viridian lightning.
Level 7: Lieutenant of Bara-dur – Increases the damage of all nearby heroes and units by 30%.
Level 10: Lidless Eye of Flame - Manifesting a part of Sauron's power from his helmet, the Mouth unleashes a burning beam of withering red white magic that disintegrates the flesh from enemies dealing massive damage.
Visual - Summon a vision of the Eye of Sauron, like when using Gorgoroth Spire Fireball and then unleash a burning beam of magic like the current spell only more awesome.


Deceitful Speech
Level 1: Toggle Sorcery/Treacherous Words
Level 3: Words of Delusion - Enemies in the target area have half site range.
Level 5: Doubt: Enemies within target area lie half their speed and cavalry slow down twice as much crushing through enemies.
Level 7: Dissent: Sets targets to fight each other.
Level 10: Words of Misery - Targeted enemy heroes deal half damage for the duration of the ability and their abilities recharge twice as slowly.

Odysseus

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #1 am: 15. Feb 2017, 22:57 »
I see you have put a lot of work into typing this extensive post,...however, what is your reasoning? Why do you actually want to change Sauron?

It's important that you at least explain why you want to change Sauron's levelling system. Currently, it looks more like a request rather than a suggestion, which might damage the potential in sharing your ideas. The current system is arguably the primary reason why Mordor is so unique in playstyle. It provides other objectives to play around rather than ''throw everything at your opponent'' or ''annoy them endlessly with harass''. Mordor has this really weird twist, where it's like they combined singleplayer and multiplayer into one. It's really unique.

My personal opinion is that Sauron's levelling system is practically perfect and I've been enjoying Mordor a lot lately, with their incredibly versatile roster. I was bummed by the fact that they nerfed Sauron's wandering shadow ability a little while ago, but (can I say this team?) they made the influence range global, so now you can literally pop your influence during a fight on any building on the map, which can create some nasty shenanigans, like troll spiking to level 2 in the middle of a fight, or orcs supported by an Overseer get a global passive boost, which can easily turn the tide of a battle. I do not see why it should be changed. If anything should be changed about Mordor, I highly, highly doubt it should be Sauron's unique levelling system.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

kmogon

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #2 am: 15. Feb 2017, 22:58 »
I see that you thought about your concept but there is lack of sth very important - WHY ? you have to give some reasons why ET should implement so radicaly changes. For me present mordor's gameplay seems to be well balanced and I don't see any good reason to change it - but of course you can convince me ;)
Edit:
you outrun me odyssesus xD

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #3 am: 15. Feb 2017, 23:03 »
Basically what was said above.

@Odysseus
Wandering shadow was nerfed because of the new ring mechanics. In my eyes, making Influence of Sauron global was the right balance change. However, at the moment it's broken because of Mordor's camp/castle wall thingies. It doesn't really change anything, Mordor was still able to suddenly pop level 2 trolls or boosted overseers before, it's just that Sauron had to make his way over there with Wandering shadow.
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8
Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

OakenShield224

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #4 am: 15. Feb 2017, 23:05 »
There are some interesting ideas with this proposal, but it does have a few problems. Firstly, some of the uniqueness that Sauron currently has would be gone, mainly the mission based levelling up and Gorthaur. No other hero uses this sort of concept. Sauron would lose his most important power which is Influence of Sauron (something that is both unique and very helpful).
Also, as much as it would look amazing for them to happen, quite a few of these abilities seem very overpowered. Once he is level 10, he would have 3 mass slaying abilities that all do very high damage, an instant hero killer, and hero disabler. Not even current ring hero Sauron is that powerful. Once you reach this stage, you'd have pretty much won the game which isn't really the purpose of a hero.

Char

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #5 am: 16. Feb 2017, 09:59 »
I probably should have started the previous post with this but I would just like to say that I have been a long time follower of the Edain mod but a first time poster here on the forum and that Edain has made BFME2 into so much more of a fantastic experience than the original game and have me hoping for a BFME3 in the future (although it is unlikely).
Secondly, I don't even know if I really do want to change Sauron. This post definitely wasn't intended to sound like a request as originally it wasn't even intended to be posted as a suggestion at all. But rather this was something I put together in my free time awhile ago that I thought I might share. I realise maybe now that I should have moved it to a community creations area or something similar but also am very glad to have recieved some responses and other opinions.
Thirdly, I would also like to clarify to the previous statement that by no means does receiving criticism or different opinions make me regret posting it, if anything I am glad I did as there are so many others who obviously enjoy playing Mordor and utilizing the Necromancer in game.

As I said, I didn't expect to get any real responses on this post at all, let alone so quickly, so thank you for that. As stated, I failed to explain why I decided to suggest potential changes to Sauron and it was mainly just my own personal opinion in relation to his transformation into Gorthaur. Don't get me wrong I think he's been implemented very well as a hero with a balanced and unique flavour. But for me personally, I just thought with such a cool concept as the Necromancer being fleshed out in both the movies and also by the mod itself that potentially there was more room to see what he could be if he were able to have a mechanic that would expand a bit more as to what he is capable of in that form. I admit, most of the abilities themselves are likely overpowered as they were designed more for how they appeared visually than necessarily their in game impact so any suggestions for changes would be welcomed.

And because the Necromancer is such an enigmatic individual I wondered whether he could fill an entirely central figure of the Mordor faction until he regains his ring and transforms into the Lord of the Rings himself. I wouldn't want to really effect the role that the Necromancer currently plays while he is on the battlefield but rather supplement the phase where he is present as Gorthaur by providing additional strength and utility into his abilities. This way the Necromancer might remain the central figure throughout the battle. Personally, I was always a little disappointed when he transformed from his Necromancer model but maybe that's just me. I wondered whether by having this increase in power to his base skillset, he could obtain some more of the awesome presence and visually astounding abilities expressed in the movies, considering how well the team have done at bringing those into the mod so far.

Having watched the Necromancer evolve to the extent he has across the history of the mod from when he was first introduced with the model based upon that from Games Workshop into the more movie-esque appearance he has now, he is without a doubt my favourite hero and I merely wondered whether there could be more to be found in that.

But honestly as I said, it was just something I came up with in my spare time and instead of having it sit on my hard drive unshared I thought I'd post it here and see if anyone else shared my opinion and was curious to hear what others thought as well. Or to hear the opinions of potentially the author's themselves as to what they think of the Necromancer as he is now and how they came to develop him.

So I hope that answers the questions on the motivation for the ideas and the concept of the abilities. In regards to detracting from the uniqueness by removing the Influence of Sauron, that was unintended and in hindsight I would definitely replace my version listed with the original. It was more of a place holder ability because I could not think of a version with anywhere near the unique impact and clever design that the team came up with in regards to theirs.  xD

Odysseus

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #6 am: 16. Feb 2017, 12:56 »
Interesting. Well, I have to say, usually when someone posts in the suggestion forums, it's because said person wants to see something change or be implemented.

If you are indeed such a long time follower, you should have probably known to post in the off-topic section if it wasn't a suggestion :P. Nevertheless, all is well, I much liked reading your first post, since it was extensive and nicely written. How a concept should be, in my opinion.

I look forward to your next concept, since you might never know if someone presents and answer to a problem or a superior alternative, it could simply be right around the corner.

I suppose Walk should move this post?

Zitat
Wandering shadow was nerfed because of the new ring mechanics. In my eyes, making Influence of Sauron global was the right balance change. However, at the moment it's broken because of Mordor's camp/castle wall thingies. It doesn't really change anything, Mordor was still able to suddenly pop level 2 trolls or boosted overseers before, it's just that Sauron had to make his way over there with Wandering shadow.
I am aware of the reasons friend, fear not :D! And yes, the global change is magnificent, that is what I was saying indirectly, because you can save your escape tool and, most importantly, save more time in-game, since Sauron doesn't have to leave the fight or walk back constantly to exert his influence. This allows for some interesting moments while in game that weren't completely possible before, if you catch my drift. Inserting a buff mid-fight that can't be seen by your enemy can be quite devastating (the Orc Overseer buff for instance).
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Walküre

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #7 am: 16. Feb 2017, 13:52 »
On the matter, I agree with the main points expressed by Odysseus and Necro. Briefly, if Gandalf is the epitome of the iconic legacy from the BFME series in the game, Sauron can be easily considered the most unique (innovative) hero of the Edain Mod: extremely smart mechanics, great diversity and differentiation, a conceptual characterisation that entails LOTR, the Hobbit and the past of Arda in equal terms. Really, Sauron symbolises the high-quality standards of this project, to the point that I couldn't really tell what might perfect his concept even more, compared to the current state of things. I know it sounds quite uncomfortable from someone as me, but one should just recognise that the Dark Lord towers over many other concepts as a true masterpiece, in a game-based perspective  xD

I suppose Walk should move this post?

I was indeed wondering what to do with this topic. It's certainly a quite atypical case to deal with. The Off-Topic section is meant to contain, as its title suggests, anything that either has nothing to do with the Edain Mod (and with Arda in general) or that involves a sensitive subject, like new factions whose main generalities are not publicly known. But I was never really put in front of an on-topic proposal which is not supposed to be a proposal in the first place  :P

I think it's better to leave this thread where it is. It nonetheless refers to Edain content and it practically acts as a suggestion, even though this is not the intent of the author. Albeit not coming to a definite conclusion, every opportunity to discuss or to clarify certain aspects ought to be welcomed in all cases. There is a wide variety of locked topics which is normally accessible in public Edain-related boards either way; not to mention other abominable contributions from the worst users. As far as it depends on me, this thread may well remain here, bathing in the sunlight of forum discussions  ;)

Odysseus

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Re: Sauron Concept Change + Other Mordor Heroes
« Antwort #8 am: 16. Feb 2017, 16:32 »
@Walk
Understood.

@Slawek
All I can say for now is, keep your eyes peeled for the Spellbook reworks ;).
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”