22. Dez 2025, 20:51 Hallo Gast.
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Autor Thema: Feedback: Horde maps  (Gelesen 36695 mal)

Gnomi

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #15 am: 8. Dez 2020, 21:51 »
Hey, seems like you don't know a few things.^^

As a beginning statement: Please always put a replay, if you post such bugs. I never had any such problems, so it is difficult for me to fix any of them. But it also seems that some of them are not exact bugs, but are part of the map itself and are also quite important.



First of all there is sometimes an upper boundary of most troups, so sometimes less troups spawn, such that there won't be too many troups on the field at once. Most of the attacks are divided in two teams and sometimes only one of the teams appear at once and the other appears later. Basically at every spawn, the game tests if the team already exists, if not, then it spawns the team. If it exists (maybe from an earlier attack, which is still attacking you), then it won't spawn the team until you have defeated the team (but then it will spawn the team at that point in time)
This is done mostly as it saved some ressources form the energy, but it also would cause bugs otherwise. A workaround would cause an increase of around 30-50% more scripts. And this is huge.^^ So I think it is way better if the troups just spawn after you have killed them.
Also the heavy armor sounds like a bug, which made the map easier than intended - after some time all uruks from random attacks should have those that upgrade. Period.^^



In addition Mines will always appear if the wall gets overrun.



So it would be nice too know what kind of message came before the uruks with no armor in LG appeared, as I could use that to find the error rather quickly.

Zitat
Then, often a victory in that challenge will be partially due to the fact that we had some luck, and that we had not the hardest waves against us.
As said: The game is actually balanced for those harder waves and people managed to win with those on hard mode.^^ The easier waves are actually a bug.

Zitat
I thought at the beginning that by keeping the wall even longer, those insane waves would not appear but I was wrong. They always can appear even if you did not anything wrong, they are not like punitive waves.
As said above: Replay would be nice. For me and all of the games I saw from other people, those waves worked perfectly fine.

Zitat
What I would fine very nice is putting all random waves without heavy armors at any case and add a fixed number of attackers with heavy armors who would come along each wave (for example, 3 additional Uruk Hai batallions or 2 additional Uruk crossbowmen with heavy armors).
As said, they are time based. It is always that either all of the units have the upgrade or none of them. (that would also be way harder, as it would cause a ton of additional work for the engine)




Overall thanks for the feedback.^^ It looks like there were some bugs in your map (at least all of your problems should not be in the map like that) and as usual: Please a replay. Otherwise I could sit another 40 hours on the map without any chance to find them.^^

Le Sournois

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #16 am: 8. Dez 2020, 23:03 »
Thanks a lot Gnomi for your answer so quick as usual,

It is hard to put a replay because it's something I tested by making a save on the skirmish mode in order to see the different possible waves.

So a replay would not make it easier for you to find it.

What I can tell you is that Uruk Hai when they come by the east never get any Heavy armors unless I'm mistaken.

When You have the message "The Uruk plan another attack on the western part of the wall", sometimes you have only half the Uruk Hai with heavy armors, sometimes everyone will have heavy armors. And those difference appear at the same wave after the same saving in skirmish mode.

When you haven't got any message, sometimes there will be 10 Uruk with heavy armors, 10 without and sometimes the 20 Uruk will have heavy armors. Same thing, the difference appear somewhat inexplicably.

Uruk with Crossbow in the east : 4 will come forward with heavy armors, and 2 will follow without heavy armors. But I have seen once the 6 batallions without heavy armors in the east.

Uruk with Crossbow in the west : 3 Uruk with crossbows come without heavy armors and 3 come with heavy armors.

If you really need a replay, I can see if I succeed in making a good game in network mode and give it to you but I don't know if it will be that significant. As I say, the better way to see those difference is saving just before a wave in skirmish mode.

Yours sincerely,




Le Sournois

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #17 am: 30. Dez 2020, 18:08 »
Finally, here is the replay with the Helm's Deep bug.
Sorry, it took a long time.
At 19231 defence points, you may see a wave of 10+10 Uruk Hai in the west without heavy armors.
At 23840 defence points, you may see a wave of wildmen of Dunland in the west, a group of which has heavy armors (in the extreme west), and another group of which has not heavy armors (those more in the east).
In all the Uruk wave at the east, there are always units who don't get heavy armors.
The facts units have heavy armors or not seems to be at random.


Watcher

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #18 am: 31. Dez 2024, 15:51 »
I have been playing the latest Horde Map - Thranduil's Halls. I've tried with almost every Faction so far.

First off, I enjoy the effects of lighting the Signal Fire immensely, and I hope this gets added to the other Horde Maps in the future, to avoid using The Hidden One.

About this map in particular:

The map's design is really good, and it's already proving to be my favourite.

However, I think the bands of Goblins arriving immediately makes it way too hard to setup any meaningful defense in time, especially for slower Factions like the Dwarves or Imladris, and combating them so early before the real army arrives is mostly out of the question, I feel, since you only have your two starting battalions (unless you have super speed :D).

This early wave is further complicated by the (compared to other Horde Maps) lack of starting resources.

I think these initial Goblins could either be reduced or (preferably) completely removed, or maybe just made to arrive later.
"The pool is up to the west-gate..."

FG15

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #19 am: 1. Jan 2025, 01:53 »
That's just a bug.
Try enabling/disabling ring heroes, because it should only affect the mode I used to create screenshots for the anouncement  [uglybunti]

Le Sournois

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #20 am: Heute um 11:38 »
Hello Edain team,

I tried a lot the Thranduil's Halls, but I didn't beat it for now. I have so far beaten all the main horde maps in hard versions without cheats, but this one, I can't succeed at it in normal mode with the help of Defenders of You from the Hidden One.

I like difficulty but I give this small feedback to tell that in my opinion, Horde maps should not be harder that this one. The degree of precision and watchfulness it requires is astonishing. If you have a bad start, you can't do it, and if you have a good start, there is still so much chance to have your dreams ruined by a filthy sneaky lone beast.

Progressive difficulty during the map is OK, but these maps have been designed to be beatable without saves in multiplayer mode and for the first time a horde map is so frustrating beating me always in the end that it almost discourage me from playing the game.

I think there are mission map which can explore more a progressive hardcore difficulty.

Also it lacks relevant difference between normal mode and hard mode. I am in normal mode, so that horde map should not be harder than any other horde map with hard mods that have been done so far, but it is nonetheless the case.
In normal mode, there should be additions to make it simpler, like better reinformcents than in hard version.

Also, debugging sanctuaries so that they can actually heal Lorien units in this horde map would help to make it less unplayable.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #21 am: Heute um 16:02 »
What specifically is giving you trouble? Are special waves too powerful and you cannot hold them? Is the pressure in the middle too strong? If you let us know what you struggle with the most, it makes it easier for us to see if the difficulty is overtuned or if we maybe need to do a better job at communicating the next threats so you can properly prepare your defenses.

Le Sournois

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #22 am: Heute um 17:37 »
The last wave is particularly difficult.
Also, I realized maybe as a single player I chose the wrong location, the left placement which I think is harder than the right one. But as I began with the left location I wanted to complete it that way because I was used to that beginning. Wrong choice i guess.

I will try now the right location to see if it is better. I think it will be, it seems better protected. In the description, maybe there could be a small advice to chose the right location for singleplayer even though I chose so quickly without thinking the matter enough, that kind of advice would save time.

Pressure in the middle is perfect. I just feel the last wave with the dragon is astonishingly strong and make me feel more of the Minas Nurn mission with more and more insanity as the game progress than the previous horde maps.

it's not so much the dragon, that I was never able to fight properly than all the other filth that comes with it, all the drakes, all the beast, in an incredible number.

But rather than nerfing it, would it be possible in normal mode to give an additional wave of reinforcment that would not appear in the hard mode just before the last wave with very good units so that the last wave would be a challenge only in hard version ?

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Feedback: Horde maps
« Antwort #23 am: Heute um 20:46 »
At the point where the drakes spawn, it's usually a good idea to retreat all the way back into the mountain. Holding the outside is no longer necessary and you should have made more than enough money to last until the map is over.

The pressure is indeed very, very strong if you don't manage to get it under control right away. It might be a good idea to take a look at the tunnels or flank attacks, but FG can say more about that as he is the one who designed the waves.