[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

a way to balance herospam

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Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
Giving units a special strength against heroes won't work unless they have a ranged attack just because of the pathfinding in this game. Single entities can move through units, but battalions can't. Archers can focus fire a single target from afar, so they could theoretically play a role here, but archers have always been troublesome due to them growing exponentially stronger and buffing them againt heroes would only make that worse.

turin.turambar:
ElendilCousin thank you very much for the answer. I'm not sure contact troops (swordsmen and pikemen) wouldn't be useful as well here  (they could eventually take less damage from heroes as well and more from classic troops). If the opponent micro properly, as you say, his hero will probably survive, but that will at least put a bit more pressure on him, and some other troops such as cavalry or archers (anti hero or not) could deliver the final blow.

And concerning archers it wouldn't be a buff but a "repurposing", reason why I tried to propose only units I currently found underused compared to what their respective factions had to offer. So these archers wouldn't be only buffed against heroes, but also rebuffed against standard troops, precisely to avoid a new opness.

ljosdos thank you for the answer. Can I then put you in the in favour list (with the current state of the proposal). I do want to propose alternatives to fight a given tactic, because diversity of gameplay means more tactics, but not nerf herospam, reason why the proposal focuses on proposing alternatives and way to fight it, but not to reduce its strength.

ljosdos:

--- Zitat von: turin.turambar am  5. Mär 2020, 08:41 ---ElendilCousin
ljosdos thank you for the answer. Can I then put you in the in favour list (with the current state of the proposal). I do want to propose alternatives to fight a given tactic, because diversity of gameplay means more tactics, but not nerf herospam, reason why the proposal focuses on proposing alternatives and way to fight it, but not to reduce its strength.

--- Ende Zitat ---
I am for adding new tactics to deal with heroes. But I do not know if it is possible to implement it without changing how the game currently works. About your repurposing of units idea in its current state I will have to say I am not in favour. Heroic units as hero counters would be a more fitting solution imo. Giving heroic archers some kind of hunting arrow and heroic close combat units an ability to weaken or slow enemy heroes would actually be enough.

turin.turambar:
Thank you for the answer !josdos (I updated the post according to your answer).

In my opinion heroic units already have a role and would probably be too costly and become too overpowered if they were to become the anti hero of factions in addition to being able to level further than standard units and being quite strong against standard units.

Halbarad:

--- Zitat von: ljosdos am  4. Mär 2020, 11:33 ---I am against making heroes weaker. i do not see a problem with people spamming heroes. Heroes are strong yes but sending hem alone against an army is still suicide.

--- Ende Zitat ---

First: It isn't about making heroes weaker, they will still do the same amount of damage against units.
Second: It is for heroes at Level 1. It isn't if you send Gandalf Level 10, Elessar and leveled Boromir, Beregond  and Imrahil against an army without heroes/ with just one or two. Gandalfs Word of Power destroys the army, Aragorn can heal, the rest kills the enemies heroes. Now you have 5 Spellpoints, all your heroes are leveled up and your enemy can do nothing to stop you.
But yes, nobody sends them in alone. You combine them with some troops, often a few troops where they can hide inside. It isn't that good/ easy in 1vs1, especially on maps like Fords of Isen, where splitting up your armies and harassing is important. But especially games with more than 2 players it is a different story.   
In 4.5, I played Angmar and played 3vs2. After my ally was defeatet I still won against 3 other players. My heroes were leveled up and I had as much of them as they had together, that was the importent thing. Helegwen freezes enemies while Witchking and Zaphragor Level 10 destroy the army, my other heroes kill their not leveled up heroes. Of course my enemies weren't that experienced in playing online, but yes, herospam is really really good in bigger games. I still have the replay of that match, but you won't be able to see it with 4.5.2...

Nevertheless I still get the point that heroes should not get to weak. Alone, they are worth their price and thats what we should keep in mind when talking about suggestions.

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