1. Jul 2025, 20:06 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Eco and water - ideas for different factions  (Gelesen 1019 mal)

Isildurs Fluch

  • Gardist von Meduseld
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.033
Eco and water - ideas for different factions
« am: 25. Feb 2025, 02:08 »
With Belfalas a faction now has the option to earn resources on the water using fishing boats. This is an interesting new feature, but it is not equally important for all factions and on all maps. In general, I find it unfavorable when certain features are only available on certain maps, but with water this is hardly possible otherwise.
For me, the logical next step would therefore be to make water maps more interesting for other factions, so that they not only build water units to react to Belfalas sea-eco-boom, but also have an interest of their own. I have some relatively simple ideas and I'd be interested to hear what you think:
At first I had considered giving all factions something unique, but then I couldn't think of enough fitting options. The ideas I already had then led me to the following consideration: Humans, Elves, Dwarves and Orcs have a fundamentally different relationship to water and it would be exciting to conceptualize that.

Let's start with the humans: I would simply give all other human, good factions (i.e. Gondor, Arnor and Rohan) fishing boats as well. Belfalas (and possibly also Gondor) could then stand out again with an upgrade in the shipyard, which would further increase the resource production of the fishing boats. Alternatively or additionally, the descendants of the Numenorians would also benefit from an upgrade, which would increase the movement of all ships.
which would also make them easier to defend. The fishing boats nicely represent the human tendency to spread out and claim territory. They also give human factions (especially Belfalas) an overwhelming economic advantage if they control the water, which also fits well historically (except for Rohan :D ).

The dwarves, on the other hand, can recruit a small merchant ship (both dwarven design and Thal/Esgaroth could fit; for Iron Mountains possibly rhunic design or dwarves of the Orocarni) instead of the fishing boat, which initially does not provide any resources, but slowly levels up (it is quasi loaded with goods). When it is full, it automatically moves to the edge of the map. If it disappears at the edge of the map, the player receives resources; if it is destroyed, the opponent receives them. The player can also send the ship off earlier, but will then receive fewer resources, as the amount of resources always depends on the level. Precisely because the opponent can capture the resources, he has an extra incentive besides harrasment to find and destroy the merchant ship and the dwarf player is well advised to either protect or hide it well.
I'm still undecided as to whether it makes sense to include an automation systemfor the trading-ships. In concrete terms, this could look like this: a new merchant ship is automatically recruited if there is currently none on the map (i.e. quasi auto-queue with unit limit=1). Every few seconds, the shipyard checks whether a ship is available and whether there are enough resources for it. But I also find the extra effort to recruit them individually and babysit them a bit justifiable, especially if there's a big reward for it.

With the elves the theme was from the beginning pretty clear: the Journey to the West. I would implement this as an upgrade in the shipyard. After it´s research, ships regularly appear at the shipyard, that are uncontrollable and automatically sail to the edge of the map, generating 1 spellpoint each time they disappear (a blessing of the Valar in thanks for you making the journey possible, so to speak).
Instead of profiting economically from the Journey (which would feel wrong), they gain access to more powerful spells earlier, which in turn fits very well with the elves and perhaps also helps Imla out a bit in the early game (i.e. if there are resources for it, so it's always a risk, because those ressources could have gone into expensive troops). The effect of the Journey becomes less and less important later in the game, while the ressource-based systems of the other factions tend to become even more significant. This also fits thematically quite well and I think Imla and Lolo can also tolerate this in the LG.
Lothlorien could possibly also have the choice between Edhellond (journey to the west -> spellpoints) and Dorwinion (merchant ship -> ressource system like the dwarves).
Alternative based on a chat discussion: The ship that leaves the map does not give 1 spellpoint on each map, but an amount that corresponds to the distance traveled from the shipyard (could also be implemented by a lvl system over time, for example, since the route is fixed). This compensates somewhat for the advantage on maps where the shipyard and the edge of the map are closer together.

For the evil factions, I couldn't think of much other than pillaging. All evil factions (possibly except Angmar) can upgrade their ships to generate resources by damaging other ships, so that disrupting the enemy's eco-boom is particularly worthwhile. Then you could think about more faction-specific upgrades and ship types/water monsters(thinking of an orc raft that generates raiders on the shore and stuff like that), but that would be kind of the next step for me. The Watcher Spell would also look great on the water and give the Misty Mountains something special.

I'm still unsure about Angmar: both fishing boats and pillaging (either or) could be implemented there, but neither feels quite right. Maybe Angmar doesn't even need an eco system on the water and instead gets the ability to freeze enemy ships through the Spellbook: The spell Frozen Land would then also work on water (with a slightly different effect). You could also repurpose the poison spell on the water and give the ships damage over time (they become rotten by magic), then Angmar would have a useful spell on the water on both spellbook paths. In combo with a few of your own military ships, you might even be able to defeat a superior force (it's all a question of balance).

Also, it would feel right to me and might make sense gameplay-wise, if some factions had the option to fortify the shipyard with an upgrade.
In addition to a HP increase and visual upgrade, a defense facility is built over the banner, which has to be separately destroyed. Only then can the shipyard be taken (alternativly a larger model can completely replace the shipyard, which then reappears after destruction if this is more feasible).
This gives the player a short window of opportunity to react if the shipyard is threatened. Since many of the systems work via long-term booms, I think this makes sense. Gondor, Arnor, Belfalas, Imladris, Lothlorien could be considered for such an upgrade, i.e. also the factions for which seafaring makes some sense. Possibly also Dwarves, if you assign them to the sub-faction (Thal, Esgaroth).  For the elves fortifying the shipyard and Journes to the West could also be the same upgrade.

 Conceptually and visually, the shipyard would also allow more sub-factions to be integrated into the faction better or at all. I imagine that all factions get an upgrade in the shipyard. For some this will fortify the whole shipyard, others will just change the design a bit, add passive defenders, an arrow tower, recruitable or temporarily summonable units. I'm still not sure what exactly fits where, but here's an overview of the sub-factions I would assign the shipyard to:
  • Gondor - Pelagir
  • Arnor - Tharbad
  • Belfalas - Belfalas itself or other coastal fiefdoms
  • Rohan - Clans of the Enedwaith? maybe Rohan itself (trading port on the Isen)
  • Imladris - Mithlond
  • Lothlorien - Edhellond or Dorwinion (possibly a choice between the two, Dorwinion could also give a merchant instead of spellpoints)
  • Erebor - Thal
  • Ered Luin - Esgaroth
  • Iron Mountains - Rhun trading post?, Dwarves of the East?
  • Mordor - Corsairs of Umbar
  • Isengard - scouting base of the thugs (i.e. the human rogues, who later conquer the Shire
  • Angmar - maybe assignment to the domains (orcs, hillmen, wolves/trolls, Carn-Dum-men, sorcerers/arrow-wights) with small bonuses according to the faction and corresponding defense options.
  • Misty Mountains - Loot base (plundered coastal town)
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Feb 2025, 02:21 von Isildurs Fluch »
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...