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Autor Thema: The Hobbit Trilogy  (Gelesen 47140 mal)

Walküre

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The Hobbit Trilogy
« am: 29. Apr 2015, 16:50 »
This thread was born as a thread related mainly to the BOTFA EE.
As you can behold, I modified it and expanded its topic.

Feel free to express your opinions and to discuss about anything that deals with the Hobbit trilogy, from technical to thematic and conceptual matters  :)


Let the Journey begin  ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 17. Jan 2016, 02:23 von DieWalküre »
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Adrigabbro

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #1 am: 29. Apr 2015, 19:51 »
I am mainly waiting for more Dain, more Beorn, Thorin's funerals and Dain's corronation. But every extra scene will be gladly enjoyed ! :D (except Alfrid, no more Alfrid ^^)


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Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #2 am: 29. Apr 2015, 19:58 »
You are right, Alfrid had enough screen time :) But, actually I read somewhere that we will probably see the scene of his death, caused by an orc or troll.
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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #3 am: 29. Apr 2015, 20:09 »
Actually that drives me full of joy. :D


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Gnomi

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #4 am: 29. Apr 2015, 21:12 »
Afaik we will see how he dies - after his small conversation with bard he will try to flee. Thereby he walks over a piece of wood -  but an orc/troll will jump on the other side and he will be catapulted over the whole battlefield... directly into the mouth of a troll, which was specially designed (as the mouth had to be big enough) for this scene...

I must say that I'm happy that this scene was not in the normal movie version. :P

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #5 am: 29. Apr 2015, 21:43 »
If this is the actual scene, it would have been enormously grotesque to be seen in cinemas :o

It would have reached the top of over-the-top things  :)
Compared to it, gigantic evil worms, deformed trolls, walking-on-air Legolas and drowned/seaweed-clothed/horror Galadriel are meaningless matters  :D
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Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #6 am: 29. Apr 2015, 22:17 »
I am mainly waiting for more Dain, more Beorn, Thorin's funerals and Dain's corronation.

What I am really looking forward to, is obviously the extended sequence of Dol Guldur  :)

The only 'official' thing we know for sure is that, as it is said by Philippa Boyens in the video, there will be a sort of mini subplot about the Three Rings of the Elves and Sauron; he will interrogate the chained Gandalf in Dol Guldur about the keepers of the Three and, then, at the arrival of Galadriel and Elrond, the Three Rings will be openly shown, and, I guess, used  8-)

That will probably lead to a longer fight against the Nine and Sauron; from what I read on the web, Galadriel will confront Sauron before his banishment, speaking in Black Speech, resisiting his temptation and taking the 'ghostly' and bright form that we saw when she orders Radagast to flee with Gandalf from the fortress.
This 'special' form should have been the one that Galadriel would have had, according to the ideas of Philippa Boyens; we can see some of that in this very fast photogram of Galadriel that appears immediately after she has banished Sauron  :)

Angelic Galadriel  (**)


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« Letzte Änderung: 30. Apr 2015, 09:33 von TiberiusOgden »

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #8 am: 30. Apr 2015, 15:09 »
I am looking forward mostly to the extended Dol Guldur scenes; what I would most like to see is Gandalf's vision through the palantir, when Sauron will show him his plan to join forces with Smaug (it's in the Art and Design book of BOTFA)  xD

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bookworm1138

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #9 am: 24. Mai 2015, 02:46 »
This is likely a dead horse that has long-since been beaten, but I'm just going to go ahead and give my few cents.

It's hard, going back and watching the Lord of the Rings film trilogy. Jackson and Co. seem so dedicated to the lore and adding so many little details from the books. Then The Hobbit prequel trilogy (intentional Star Wars reference there) comes out and it's, well, all over the place. Personally, I didn't know what to expect, apart from the occasional deviation from the source material, but this?

Here are some things which I found to be the most egregious about The Hobbit in terms of lore and, overall, ludicrousness.

- What they did to the storyline of the War against Angmar, one of my favorite aspects of the Appendices, which even BFME2 managed to do some small modicum of justice. Having the Rangers bury the Witch-king just makes Aragorn's people, and the soldiers of Gondor who came to their aid, really stupid. I mean, we can split hairs and say "but Arnorians are immune to the Black Breath", which I don't buy, but nevertheless, why did they feel the need to bury empty black robes? Why were they not affected by the Black Breath? Why did the Witch-King (and, as we find out in DoS, the other Nazgul) just sit there and let themselves be buried?

[amendment: I looked back on the timeline of the Third Age, and something else doesn't make sense. It is implied in the films that the Nazgul were "raised" recently - though an undead Ringwraith dying, or even pretending to be dead is crazy enough - which makes no sense in regards to the history with Gondor. I mean, if the Witch-King was supposedly dead and buried, how do we explain Minas Morgul? And Earnur (oh wait, i forgot: Legolas says that Isildur was the last king of Gondor. lol, you know nothing, Legolas Greenleaf) was killed by the Witch-King, which ended the line of Kings (obviously that has already happened, and in the extended edition of BotFA, Thranduil references Denethor's father ruling as Steward of Gondor). Why would the Wise be unaware that one of the Nazgul was still alive and actively waging war with Gondor?]

- Radagast. Enough said.

- Why did they recast for the voice of Sauron/the Necromancer? I feel it's only because benedict cumberbatch is famous in geek culture (especially with the female audiences) and, whether seen or not, his name in the credits would fill the seats in the movie theaters.

- Why is Beorn a giant?

- Red-haired she-elf and her romance with handsome Kili (or Fili, which ever one of them). It's unnecessary.

- Speaking of unnecessary, why is PJ trying to ship Gandalf and Galadriel? Isn't she already married to Celeborn?

- Speaking of Galadriel...



This scene, while some might think it cool, makes zero sense to me. Why is Galadriel becoming all scary in this scene? Is it because she's using Nenya? If so, then why is she turning scary-looking? And WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IN FRONT OF SAURON? Especially since the Three Rings of the Elves were supposed to be HIDDEN! And why is she wielding the Phial of Earendil? Is that what she's using to banish Sauron? If so, why is she turning scary-looking? The Silmarils, from whence the Phial gets its light, are not evil, and I read nowhere that they were ever tainted by Morgoth or Sauron. It just feels like more of PJ making Lothlorien elves (especially Galadriel) scarier than they were in the books.

- Speaking of scary elves, what about zombie Thranduil? That totally comes out of nowhere and is never mentioned ever again.

- Legolas surfing on spiders, orcs, defying gravity, controlling a troll via God of War game mechanics, just being in this movie altogether.

- Bolg's redesign.

- Azog

- The troll with the battering ram helmet, and the one with the spindly spear legs

And last but not least...

- The Dwarves' severe lack of beards.


Feel free to add other things which annoyed, bothered you or was egregious to the lore.
« Letzte Änderung: 7. Jan 2016, 03:25 von bookworm1138 »
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hoho96

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #10 am: 24. Mai 2015, 12:51 »
I agree with you 99%  :D
However, I kind of like Benedict Cumberbatch voice for Sauron. I think it was that they couldn't bring back the guy who voiced Sauron in LotR, but Cumberbatch is an amazing alternative!

Other sins:

- The God damn*&@% Eagles!!! It's by far the worst ex machina in movie history ever!! Even Tolkien never used them so cheaply  :-|

- The Dwarves encounter with Smaug (the battle of the forges). Although the action looked freak'n awesome, but it literally makes no sense whatsoever; The whole point of bringing Bilbo is to sneak to the mountain the steal the gem. They were scared to death from Smaug. Why would they ever go YOLO on him!!
and then after the ridiculous golden weapon plan, why would Smaug go to kill the poor lake men. The Dwarves were right under his mercy after their "plan" to entomb him failed.

- The whole Angmar thing makes no sense at all!!
The lonely mountain is the key to control the north??!!! have they ever looked at any map for Middle Earth?! The Lonely Mountain is nowhere near Angmar, nor any major road to Angmar, nor anywhere within a 1000 miles from Angmar!!!!
And if they already have Gundabad (an ancient stronghold and armory of Angmar) where beyond it lays Angmar (as Legolas mentioned) then the Lonely Mountain attack makes no sense cause the Orcs already hold the gate and all lands of Angmar!
And apparently Sauron has lost his mind and abandoned Mordor and the glorious Barad Dur and his coming war on all of Middle Earth to spend even more time and effort to rebuild a barren ice land into an old little kingdom that had served its purpose since more than 500 years ago!

- Not enough Dain!!! *period*.

- Why it's 3 movies!!! (more profit of course  :( )

- Why Azog's army is all Uruks! last time I've checked the Misty Mountains had mostly little Goblins and mutilated filthy orcs, and no fancy Isengard-ish steel armor.
If this same army was at helms deep (with the YOLO Trolls) I grantee that Rohan would have no chance at all  [uglybunti]

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #11 am: 24. Mai 2015, 12:58 »
Zitat
- Why Azog's army is all Uruks! last time I've checked the Misty Mountains had mostly little Goblins and mutilated filthy orcs, and no fancy Isengard-ish steel armor.
If this same army was at helms deep (with the YOLO Trolls) I grantee that Rohan would have no chance at all  [uglybunti]
Azogs Army is Dol Guldur, Bolg Leads the Army of Mount Gundabad

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #12 am: 24. Mai 2015, 13:27 »
Zitat
Azogs Army is Dol Guldur, Bolg Leads the Army of Mount Gundabad
Seriously? In the movie lore it's said that the Orcs came from Moria and the misty mountains to gather in DolGuldur for the war.
Nonetheless, it still doesn't make any sense whatsoever; why doesn't Sauron make all his armies in this quality in wotr? he would have won the world!

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #13 am: 24. Mai 2015, 14:16 »
All this "We are a Prequel for Lord of the Rings". That was just *********!!!
Or in another way of questioning: What was´nt a Sin against Tolkien, Middlearth, the Hobbit book and the Lord of the Ring books or films or against the whole Universe which was so greatefull created by J.R.R. Tolkien?
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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #14 am: 24. Mai 2015, 17:15 »
Talking about Angmar and the Lonely Mountain as the 'key to conquering the North':  there is an interesting theory on what Sauron meant with that, here: http://musingsofatolkienist.blogspot.com/2015/01/gundabad-what-was-that-exactly.html?m=1
Also, about the Nazgul being entombed, they actually have bodies, just invisible ones, and according to the movies, someone put powerful spells on their tombs so that they could not come to life again, or just prevent them from getting out, until Sauron revived them.
Also, talking about the wars with Angmar, I have a thread where a theory is developed on why Elrond said they have been living in Peace for 400 years, on Thranduil's wife's death and some other things, here: http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=855652;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
Thorin did not have a beard, because, as PJ said in the Art book of AUJ, he cut his beard because he was grieving on the loss of Erebor and his father and grandfather, and he would not grow a beard until Erebor was reclaimed. He was made to look younger because PJ wanted to make the movie viewers believe he could actually have other heirs if he reclaimed Erebor.
About the orcs of Mount Gundabad, they probably held only Gundabad and not the whole of Angmar. Sauron had a strategy on taking Angmar (seen in the first thread I posted a link to), maybe he wanted to reclaim the ruins of Carn Dum, too, and maybe he needed to subdue the orcs at Gundabad in order to make them serve him completely. Another possibility is that some of the local population of Angmar remained there after the Witchking's death, and they would not obey a small army of Gundabad orcs, so Sauron wanted to send most of his armies there to subdue the population (consisting of Men of Carn Dum, orcs, Trolls and possibly some Black Numenorians, that had fled the destruction of the Kingdom). Then he could move to Carn Dum, or choose to remain in Dol Guldur making it his base of operations. He probably chose Angmar over Mordor because there were still some garrisons guarding the Land of Shadow (particularly Minas Morgul, which in movie lore was Minas Ithil, since the Nazgul were dead and could not claim it, and possibly Cirith Ungol), while Angmar was not guarded; and Eriador and Rhovanion were considerably weaker than Gondor and Rohan, so he chose to retake Angmar.
I like most things about the Hobbit movies, but I dislike one thing: the troll that broke the wall of Dale with his head  [uglybunti]

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