I think it's time for all of us to get back to the right tracks. Heated exchanges of opinions could hardly help our cause and most of the times either degenerate further or freeze discussion altogether, despite the 'heat' in there (sorry for the pun). No one should certainly feel forced to participate in whatever debate, or even needs to be teased to come up with some random answer, just for the sake of it; I agree with Julio's consideration, and that is probably the worst way we could conduct a debate, and so we must act in order to avoid such pernicious eventuality.
On the other hand, I encourage everyone willing to immerse themselves into the beauty of concept-making, to try to look at things with the broadest sight possible. We're surely tackling very complex, structural issues which also relate to crucial themes of the canons. Sometimes, being a bit fixated on details (or balance) prevents one from enjoying the whole portrait, and that's a true pity. I believe this is what Tiberius wanted to say; we both are very similar, in that we're two conceptual souls that know very well how much vital creativity is, and often clashed against others who had a different (drier) stance on the matter, but time proved us right. Without a clear creative vision of the entire picture, even if partial and disregarding some aspects, this Mod would silently decay and die as a plant deprived of sunlight; this is the most important lesson I have learnt so far, and that's why I've always supported every brave change which the team has hitherto undertaken (this is evenly true in regards to a couple of MU veterans I and Tiberius had the honour to work with). Anyway, I hope we'll be able to keep ourselves together and finally get through this dark, bleak path. We owe it to our Lord of the Fair Valley
My comment will be divided in three parts, as I would like to address various problematics.
Firstly, I want to leave my personal comment on
Witch-king's (the user) proposal:
Your general intent is actually quite bold, I recognise that and commend you for the noble proposition of imagining another role for Elrond. However, I say in all honesty, I deem your concept the least convincing and most defect-ridden one, out of all the others that have been showcased to the present day. The reason is simple: it's all a step backward, way backward, to past 3.8.1 logics. Namely, the removal of his water-horse spell I consider a serious loss for his design, given the originality of the feature (scaling of magic); furthermore, the level-1 experience-lending ability will just be doomed to become utterly useless soon after the start of the game, and the introduction of a mere, sheer healing ability just sounds sloppy (how many healing devices can the faction count on already?). Due to the mentioned reasons, I will, gently and respectfully, ignore your suggestions in the following passages. I just cannot figure out how I would be to include any of the afore-indicated conclusions.
Secondly, I feel like remarking some conceptual points of great note; in other words, the pillars sustaining the proposal.
One thing I can't fathom is how we, everyone of us, ended up spiralling in vortex around the idea of a mass-slayer hero, thus obsessing about it in an unhealthy manner. In truth, my and Tiberius' concept doesn't add any mass-slaying ability whatsoever, or strengthen this trait of Elrond even more. We felt that, by removing
Restoration, his role would be much clearer and defined, alongside portraying Vilya in a lore-accurate way (therefore 'liberating' the Ring from its connection with the tornado). There's no will, from our part, to turn the hero in an implacable killing machine and our ideas will certainly not take such path. Nonetheless, I'm afraid I have to point it out firmly, affirming so lightly that Elrond has never been a mass-slayer or is not meant to be one, is categorically and factually wrong. We have a precise statement from
Lord of Mordor on the issue:
Elrond is meant to be Rivendell's AoE hero, and with three abilities to that effect (flood horses, his passive AoE damage later and Vilya) I'd say hes conceptually well positioned for the role. Of course, if his abilities are too weak they can be easily buffed, but I don't think more fundamental hero reworks are necessary here.
Of course, the comment goes on and adds that no further change is needed, in his opinion. That was more than two years ago, though, and the unexpected has happened in the meantime. For instance, Galadriel was given a great restoring ability based on ROTK, which is a true kind of full restoration, and my Nenya concept was eventually accepted, functioning the Ring according to its own particular lore. I'm therefore convinced that the approaching 4.5 era paves the way for a final completion of said changes: canonical and fitting Three Rings.
As for invincibility and restoration, being the two most recurrent themes we have discussed, I reiterate my position, not because I'll necessarily stick to my own, but these two are quite preponderant arguments, which I'm not ready to renounce.
- Invincibility by itself is unique, I daresay. There is no equivalent in the vanilla (if I recall) and Nenya used to be a pre-eminent feature of the game, too. The fact that the ability was superseded by the current rendition was due to it not being suitable to the Lady of Light (as an offensive tool that would permit to breach through enemy armies and forts), and not because of its intrinsic uniqueness (or lack of it, as some have purported). The effect is per se the most powerful of the Mod (the ultimate defence), and, as others have acknowledged, does fit Vilya a good deal (a shield against any malevolent will or power). The only way in which the base would be secure and sound, kept unsullied from decay. Other alternatives we have not found, nor have the most relevant critiques of the concept found any either. By the way, the Ring of Air would not be a copy of Angmar's spell: the Iron Crown's spell does not influence heroes and units.
- On the other hand, I don't view restoration so unique a feature, as some have depicted it. It comes straight out from the vanilla (the current ability is actually a watered-down version) and it's present in three different factions! Galadriel's version is implemented far more coherently (it restores health) and is bound by defined limits.
As a secondary remark of a quite jocular nature: shall we talk about restoration and balance? Well, have you ever tried to play with Rivendell, joining forces with another Imladris ally? Two Elronds on the battlefield mean that both heroes can refresh each other's abilities in an eternal loop, refreshing other heroes' skills equally. Infinite loud waters, infinite gales and infinite Vilya's blessings...
On top of all, our points regarding the Three Rings surmount everything else. As said, it's the thread underlying all their three concepts. Some of the responses did concede this PARAMOUNT argument, although the relative corrections that were then suggested sometimes went in the opposite direction. Nevertheless, I don't think that staying loyal to such premise equals to a partisan-like retrenchment behind one's safe position. It's quite easy to put it into words: if we do without the Three Rings pillar, the whole construction falls apart.
Now that we are done with the
pars destruens, I will deal with the
pars construens. That is, after having de-constructed the holistic structure of the concept, I'm about to move forward and propose a constructive solution (viable, hopefully). It's a two-option solution, as we have envisaged until now:
1. Merging our proposals together, retaining the best and acceptable of each possibility. Do be wary, though, that the following is to grant Elrond five (potential) different characterisations/roles, turning him into an Elven deity...
ELROND
Level 1: Rage of the Loudwater - Elrond raises the waters of the Bruinen in defence of his people, summoning a powerful flood in the form of a mighty horse to crush enemies in the target area. At levels 3, 5, 7, and 10, an additional flood horse appears (maximum 5). Left click to activate.
Level 3: Ancient Equipment - Elrond draws his old sword Hadhafang and puts on his battle armour. Elrond permanently gains +25% armour and inflicts area-of-effect damage. Units in his vicinity also gain +25% armour.
Elrond mounts or dismounts his horse. (Passive and active ability)
Level 5: Restoration - Elrond uses his healing magic to refresh allied heroes, instantly recharging their ability timers. Does not affect Elrond. Left click icon then left click on target area.
Level 7: Wuthering Gale - Elrond summons a raging whirlwind around himself which will heavily damage surrounding enemy units, knocking them down and drawing them towards Elrond. Left click to activate.
Level 10: Vilya's Blessing - Vilya shields Rivendell from decay and evil. All buildings, heroes and units within your base are blessed with invincibility for a long duration.
2. If people are fine with having
Restoration gone, the healing theme (dear to many) might be re-introduced as an additional side of Vilya. For example, lowering heroes' cooldown. This would subsequently increase the Ring's range and beneficial prowess, torpedoing all those concerned about balance.
Any other suggestion is more than welcome. Particularly, resolving Vilya and its in-game display will be the key-issue, I presume. Given the lack of better alternatives, that live up to the ultimate, prime stature of this ruling Ring, I shall rest with my opinion (for now).
