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Autor Thema: Gondor Balance Discussion  (Gelesen 4647 mal)

Offline Vodohaka

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #15 am: 26. Mai 2016, 01:10 »
In my opinion Elite KryPtik has a valid argument. It takes very long to upgrade fire arrows.
Yes you can spam archers now, because of the price reduction. But the upgrade is problematic compared to other factions Gondor needs very long to research its archer attack upgrade.
Still I wouldn't like to see fire arrows as a level 2 upgrade. Instead I suggest to let it at level 3 and decrease the time to upgrade the archery range.
Then one can research fire arrows faster, but you have to pay the same price as before.
Also rangers should not become too strong because they cost the same as before and at the time you have a ranger camp outside of your base and the money to build them in masses you probably would have researched fire arrows anyway.
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Offline Tirano

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #16 am: 30. Mai 2016, 19:43 »
I don't like signals fires because if you compare with a farm they give less resources  assuming taht the cost of signals fires unit is the same that normal cost of unit (swordsmen cost 200, axes 200, spears 300 and archers 300) signal fires give on average 500 recources per 3 min and a farm full upgrade give 720 per 3 min.
Also if no mistakes this is a bulding for early game so if you compare the signal fires without the power this means no archer or spears and only one battalion this estructure give on average 200 per 3 min and the farm without upgrade give you 360 in the same time, this means that at 9 min of game you recover the invesion of the signals fires and in the mean time the far give you 904 extra recources discounting investment.

But is not only the diferent of production that worry me.. the farm has many other advantages

 -time of construction (farms take 10 seg less taht signals).
- initial inversion (farms only cost 176 recources because they give instantly 24) and signals fires cost 500 instead.
- farms give recources per 12 seg so the risk of lose the inversion is less.
-the farms can get de upgrade of the marketplace (900 recources per 3 min a farm full upgrade).
-with the farm you dont need to spend 3 powers on the palantir.
-the farm give recources so you can select on what spend the recources this means taht the farm is more versatile.

And the only adventajes fore signal fires are:

-healt.
-you dont need to byuls a barrack to make units.
-less comand point of units.

The only fact that I'm not aware is the permormance in combat of the units but in this aspect i dont see really big diferent betwen the units

knowing this I really dont see the point of make signals fires they are much much worse...

Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #17 am: 1. Jul 2016, 11:44 »
I have played around with Gandalf in Edain Mod quite a bit and he feels quite weak. His Wizard blast does almost no damage except to very weak enemies such as orcs and the same goes for Word of Power. This combined makes it feel like quite a waste of 3000 resources. I heard there was also a bug of magic damage not scaling with levels. Would that have to do with why his two abilities feel so weak?

Offline Elite KryPtik

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #18 am: 1. Jul 2016, 12:23 »
Yeah, and that bug has been fixed. Also, put him on Aggressive stance when using those abilities, it helps a lot :)
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #19 am: 1. Jul 2016, 22:42 »
Was there a new patch by any chance, and that's where it was fixed? Because I didn't get any updates from the Edain launcher

Online Walküre

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #20 am: 1. Jul 2016, 22:48 »
I have played around with Gandalf in Edain Mod quite a bit and he feels quite weak. His Wizard blast does almost no damage except to very weak enemies such as orcs and the same goes for Word of Power. This combined makes it feel like quite a waste of 3000 resources. I heard there was also a bug of magic damage not scaling with levels. Would that have to do with why his two abilities feel so weak?

No. The scaling issue will be solved in the next update  :)

Besides, I think we had better continue this debate in the appropriate balance thread of this board; this topic is in fact primarily focused on balance, rather than actual suggestions. I will merge this thread with Gondor Balance Discussion.

--- MERGED ---

Offline Odysseus

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #21 am: 29. Aug 2016, 17:44 »
G'day,

I have some small suggestions for Boromir and Faramir. There has been some talk that Boromir is a little mediocre for his price. While I don't necessarily agree, I think this might give him a little boost: Move his ''Horn of Gondor'' to level 2 instead of 3, and his ''Heir of Gondor'' to level 4 from level 5. I am sure that this is not balance-breaking in anyway, and might be a nice little quality of life improvement so to speak. Boromir is a very fun hero to use, but his use is a little limited.

Another suggestion that was already made, but that I would like to show my support for, would be allowing the player to control Boromir during his ''Last Stand'' ability, but this might be more significant.

For Faramir, his leadership says it is unlocked at level 6, but instead unlocks at level 4. Faramir's leadership is considerably more powerful than his brother, even though they ultimately come at the same cost and Faramir's at one level earlier too. My suggestion is simple: Switch his leadership with his mount ability. Thus, mount at level 4, leadership at level 6.

Thoughts?
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Online FG15

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #22 am: 29. Aug 2016, 18:25 »
Faramir's leadership tooltip is outdated, apparently our testers have missed it so far.
He grants only +30% damage to infantry and +30% armor to cavalry instead of +50%. Also he grants no speed buff. Comparing direct combat strength therefore Boromirs leadership is considerably more powerfull than his brothers. What makes Faramir's leadership really strong is the fear resistance, as he is Gondor's main source for that. So it has to be on a lower level.

Offline Odysseus

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #23 am: 29. Aug 2016, 18:35 »
I noticed something in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRSsEfnd1jg
Gandalf's shield against monsters and heroes disappears after two hits and is quite buggy overall.

The thing is, I don't know if it is a bug or an intended balance decision. Any clarification possible?
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Sep 2016, 01:34 von Odysseus »
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Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #24 am: 14. Sep 2016, 06:03 »
Gandalf still feels pretty weak. He has trouble killing most units with Wizard Blast except for orcs and really weak tier units. Even when he hits level 10, his word of power is utter crap. First of all it doesn't even kill most units, second of all it just knocks them back and they get up again and continue like nothing happened. It pretty much kills the whole point of getting the White Wizard...you are just better off getting Aragorn who not only has more survivability but actually does better at killing units. Lightning Sword is okay, if not borderline on the better side...standard B4me2 I guess, though I wouldn't mind if splash were added to it similar to Unofficial Patch 2.02.  Istari Light still does good damage while his Bubble Shield is just borderline sh*t in comparison to Thranduil's bubble shield (Idk what Edain team was thinking on that one).

I would really suggest buffing his wizard blast and word of power in damage so atleast its useful not just against the weakest units in the game. His Bubble shield needs a definite improvement imo...at-least to the point its actually good for something.

For Gondor when two of your main heroes feel absolute crap/worthless, it honestly takes the whole fun out of playing for me as Gondor has always been one of my fav factions. The other hero I am talking about is Boromir which most definitely isn't worth 1800 resources for how fast he dies. He's good with his shield ability but other than that absolutely horrible for 1800 considering how Edain Team classifies him as a "Tank". Please please, please take a look at Gandalf, he feels very underwhelming and the damage per level buff feels almost unnoticable.

This is just a suggestion but for Berethor I think his level 10 ability is way too overpowered and maybe he should just have that interaction with Faramir, to better represent the lore. Could maybe make Berethor a support hero for Faramir alone to better supplement him. Also this is just my input but I liked having Denethor only as a fort hero, that and he's overpowered I feel with his constant spam of summoning units...which makes absolutely no sense lore-wise or game-wise.

Offline Hamanathnath

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #25 am: 15. Sep 2016, 14:09 »
I do agree that Gandalf is a bit weak right now, but I think his Wizard Blast and Bubble Sheld are fine right now.  Wizard Blast deals decent damage already, and it comes back incredibly quickly, especially once you are Gandalf the White.  Also, it is a level 1 ability, so it really shouldn't be wrecking armies.  And his bubble shield, in my opinion, is in a great spot.  Comparing it to Thranduil's, it comes back much quicker, and most importantly, doesn't take up an ability slot.  And even if the actual effect is weaker then Thranduil's, you also have to remember that Gandalf is NOT supposed to be a tank, while Thranduil is.

The way I see it, Gandalf needs 2 things right now.  First, as you said, Word of Power needs its damage increased.  It shouldn't be able to insta-kill armies of elite units, but basic units should take more damage from it then what they take now.  And second, Gandalf should have his base health increased to 4500 instead of 3500.  Gandalf's main problem right now is how much of a risk he has of dieing, and this increase would reduce that risk.  Also, Saruman already has this amount of health, so I find it a bit unfair that Gandalf doesn't.

I agree that Boromir needs a buff.  Right now, I think the best option would be to improve his Last Stand to where you can control Boromir while it is active, and it acts more like an invincibility, so instead of dieing when the effect ends, he will be left with about 10% of his health left.  Other then that, I'm fine with Boromir.   

Beregond (Not Berethor, the guy from the Third Age game ;)) indeed does more then he is worth when he is level 10, but I think this is countered by him being underwhelming until that point, so I am fine with him.

Denethor was changed due to unfixable bugs when he was on the Citadel, so that won't change.

Thanks for the feedback on Gondor.  It is always good to see people take interest in posting about Balance :)

Offline koh11

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #26 am: 16. Sep 2016, 07:05 »
Hey thanks for taking the time to respond back. I really appreciate it.  :)

I have a question...judging by your post, if you don't want Wizard Blast to be able to kill more than just low-tier units, what exactly do you want its role to be in his kit? He's classified as a mass slayer. Sames question goes for Word of Power.

I don't mind if his damage on both Wizard Blast and Word of Power stays low-mediocre, but there should be some sort of trade-off. I think it would be cool to try something unique with Gandalf while retaining his classic set of abilities just with a different play-style as this wizard who comes blasts back enemies not killing them but more of a window of opportunity to save your army/heroes.

My suggestion would be to give wizard blast ability to knock back heroes except for the ring heroes and increase its radius(never understood why this wasn't in the vanilla game looking at the movie fight between Gandalf and Saruman knocking each other around).  For word of power, decrease the radius moderately and reduce its cool-down to a minute so its more frequently available not for annihilating armies but saving yours. 

1000 hp boost would be good. What's cooldown for Gandalf's Bubble in Edain?

 Again the whole reason I love Edain Mod is because it gets most of lore/gameplay in a sweet spot. Seems like there's just no innovative ideas on Beregond to be more connected to the lore (sorry not Berethor :P). I would rant about Denethor but don't really have any ideas. Just don't like his spam soldiers out of thin air aspect.

Edit: Is there also some way to speed up Gandalf's Wizard Blast animation in Edain Mod? It feels EXTREMELY slow/clunky.
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Sep 2016, 07:16 von koh11 »

Offline Hamanathnath

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #27 am: 16. Sep 2016, 14:05 »
The reason I think Gandalf's Wizard Blast should stay the same is not only because it is a level 1 ability, but it comes back a lot faster then any other of his damaging abilties.  In pretty much every other version of BFME, Gandalf was ment to be an Army Killer by himself.  If you had a leveled up Gandalf, you could pretty much kill any army that your enemy could send.  And his incredibly high price and CP cost reflected that.  However, in Edain, that are very few Heroes/Powers that can decimate entire armies, just because of how the balance in Edain works.  So, it is best to come up with way to make abilities not too strong, but effective in certain situations.

As for your suggestions for Wizard Blast and Word of Power, from what I can tell, the team is generally against changing the role of BFME's iconic abilities.  And Gandalf has the most iconic abilities in the entire game, so don't expect them to drastically change any time soon. 

I don't know what the exact cooldown number is on Gandalf's bubble shield, but considering Thranduil's is 60 seconds, I can pretty much guarentee Gandalf's is much less then that, just from playing this game a lot.  Maybe around 30 seconds?

I think the idea behind Beregond's abilities is that not only he a Citadel Guard, which is the reason he has mostly defensive abilities, but because of his role connecting to Faramir in the books, he can not only can support him, but all heroes once he is level 10.  And I think that is pretty well done.


Offline Sawman

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #28 am: 16. Sep 2016, 14:11 »
I too agree with this ^

But I think Borimir definitely needs to be looked at, for 1800 he's just not really worth that. He has the lowest damage in terms of tanks in the game, Hama of Rohan has the same damage at the start but has the potential to do more damage then most hero killers and he is cheaper too so I think a damage buff would be nice.

I think it would be cool for him to have a stance system applied to him but then he'd have to have some abilities changed for this to happen but I'd be okay with it

Sword and shield- he can knock back enemies and has more armour

Sword and horn- less armour but his horn has a really fast cool down and he does a bid more damage

Sword and knife- even less armour but a lot more damage and causes splash damage

Offline Julio229

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Re: Gondor Balance Discussion
« Antwort #29 am: 16. Sep 2016, 15:41 »
If it can be made without making Boromir not auto-acquire units when on defensive (Sword and Shield) stance, I love this idea of stances!