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Mordor Balance Discussion

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Garlodur:
I have several problems with Mollok.
One is that I never seem to find a particular use for him. As a mass slayer other units are more useful, such as Nazgul with their debuffs, or simply a dozen hordes of orcs. For good measure, you can buy 8 battalions of orc archers for his price, who do a lot more damage to those units that are send at you en masse (standard infantry).
Consequence is that he barely gains experience, even more so in combination with archers as he's too slow. He doesn't gain useful abilities till later.

So I'd like to suggest that Mollok spawns with his War Hammer, this makes him a building destroyer that is a lot harder to kill than catapults or battering rams, so quite dangerous when facing an enemy outpost at a chokepoint. In turn, as he gains experience, he'll switch to his long sword and rages out on pestering infantry.

What do you think?

Adrigabbro:
!Disclaimer! this is not meant to be a crying post. !Disclaimer!

I wanna open a debate: what do you think about Mordor currently?

I personnally have great trouble playing against Mordor. I feel like you can't afford any failure/wrong decision at all while Mordor can spam thoughtlessly orcs and make dozen mistakes but still win the game.
It is particularly true with Dwarves and, to a minor extent thanks to how strong Beornings are, Lorien.

One of the most frustrating thing is the 2 pp tower with archers on top spell. They have it so quickly that you often have to back off early in the game.

So I'm asking you: what do you think? How do you play against Mordor?

-DJANGO-:
Dito. I also find Mordor difficult to play against.
In my opinion Mordor should make the main damage only with Trolls, Heros or Elite-Units. Orcs should only make noticeable damage with Buff-Spells, Hero-Leadership or with Bannercarriers (i.e. Lvl. 2 or higher).
The flank damage of normal Sword-Orcs (0 Res) should be very very very low (especially against Riders).
At the moment a Mordor player must very often just spam Orcs & equip his command points, to do enough damage and pressure.
I think there is still enough space to customize the strengh and life of the normal 0 Res Orcs, so that they can fit their role as Buffer-Unit...

Odysseus:
I think it is generally known that Mordor is the most solid overall faction. First, the Orc-spam is mostly a pain in the early-game since you have so little crowd control in that stage with most factions and you are spending resources on getting your economy going. Secondly, Mordor benefits from the snowballing effect. Thirdly, while you are throwing resources against the wall, Mordor replaces most of the casualties for free.
The majority of the factions cannot withstand Mordor in a direct slug-fest, especially Lothlorien and Rohan. Mordor's only real weakness that I can think of is their economy. Hit the eco, and they will have trouble getting out heroes, siege engines and Cirith Ungol units. Unfortunately, it is easier said than done.

Furthermore, I would personally push that Barricade thing to a 3 PP spell, but that would break the symmetry in the Spellbook, so I don't know what the team would say.

Frankly, any form of crowd control and AOE via Spells or Heroes is always useful against Mordor. Also, Archer spam can be useful, but it is risky and one-dimensional. I think Mordor needs some tweaks and Lothlorien as well, but what exactly, I find hard to say without shaking up the current ''meta''.

However, there is one tactic that I noticed is useful against Mordor (especially with Elves). Try to lure them into more narrow passages on the map, and engage them there. Mordor's army is the best when fighting like a big mass, often surrounding your units and whatnot, but if you take a chokepoint, you are largely nullifying their strength in numbers.

Edit: Oh, and what DJANGO said. I agree with that.

The_Necromancer0:
I agree that Mordor is the strongest faction, while I still do like playing with them. Major weaknesses of Mordor such as an overall basic hero roster, no walls around their camp and weaker units are all eclipsed by the continuous orc spam. The way I see it one basic battalion of a faction's infantry should take out between 1.5 to 2 orc battalions. The problem that the team is facing, I think, is that since the free orcs are the basic infantry of Mordor making them too weak would make Mordor the weakest faction. A possible solution that I would see would be to add another basic infantry unit and nerf the orcs.

On the other hand, I think it is possible to counter most of the issues. The humongous force, the many heroes and the need to monitor the camp continuously means that the player must spend each second of it's time micromanaging something. The heroes, standing out, are easily picked off and the troops are often left to their own goodwill.

I'll have a test, normally I can pit two random AI against myself as Mordor and beat them, I'll pit myself against two Brutal Mordor AI and gradually increase the handicap until I'm beaten and see how it plays out. I think it is key to remember that, only as an AI, it doesn't benefit from the half price for the basic orcs.

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