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Mordor Balance Discussion

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Adrigabbro:
Come on, you are not being honest with yourself. You said repeatedly  in your video that Mordor needs to be de-nerfed, how dare you say that your point is not Mordor is too weak? And how dare you say that arguing that Angmar is too strong is nitpicking? Do you even read me? So yeah, it does sound cranky to me. Right now I feel like you read only small parts of my comment and mixed them in a random order.
By the way, when I said that your opponents were also strong, I wasn't talking to you but to Leri_weill, but I admit I should have made myself clearer on that.

Odysseus:
That's because hero trample damage, in particular Nazgûl, was nerfed because some people were complaining about Nazgul bringing too much to the table for their cost. Sound familiar? :P

Still though, Dark Rangers are the easiest of the three Men of Carn-Dûm variants to deal with, imo.

Mordor is not weak. Far from it. They are still very potent. However, what truly is the issue that Angmar has been out for like a week and people already know what to exploit to make even Mordor pale in comparison. What truly is then the issue? To me, it's really clear that it is Angmar, and not Mordor.

I have also seen other replays, like one 2v2 posted by Draco where Mordor had triple barracks including several Orc tents on an Outpost and simply overran Iron Hills Dwarves even with upgraded Ironbreakers with their AOE weapon killing dozens of Orcs.

Nay, Mordor is still very potent, their steamrolling advantage has changed little imo. Angmar is the problem. And logically so, because they are fresh and need several patches to come into a more finely-tuned state, don't you think?

Adrigabbro:
After reading your post, I realize that you are a lot clearer than me. But my point, my only point, is really what you just said Odysseus. The problem is not Mordor but Angmar.

Elite KryPtik:

--- Zitat von: Adrigabbro am 14. Apr 2016, 17:37 --- Come on, you are not being honest with yourself. You said repeatedly  in your video that Mordor needs to be de-nerfed, how dare you say that your point is not Mordor is too weak? And how dare you say that arguing that Angmar is too strong is nitpicking? Do you even read me? So yeah, it does sound cranky to me. Right now I feel like you read only small parts of my comment and mixed them in a random order.
By the way, when I said that your opponents were also strong, I wasn't talking to you but to Leri_weill, but I admit I should have made myself clearer on that.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Here is my original post on this, in entirety:

--- Zitat --- OK, I have just played a 3v3 against 3 Angmars, and I can say with utter surety that Mordor doesn't have a shadow of a chance against Angmar. They have been nerfed into the ground. All the nerfs that Mordor has received means that the only time you can effectively push forwards against Angmar is early game, once those upgraded men of carn dum are out on the battlefield its over. I did record the game and it will be posted up on my channel tomorrow, you can see in the video how impossible it is for me to make any ground.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Notice I say twice, Mordor doesn't stand a chance against Angmar. I am not picking apart your argument, you are attempting to do so to mine. I believe that the Mordor nerfs are going to really hurt their early game against rush factions in general, like Rohan, Isengard and Ered Luin Dwarves, but it is most prevalent in Angmar, which is why I mentioned them.

In your first post on this, you don't present any actual points about Angmar being strong, all you reference is me talking about things. You didn't make a single point about Angmar's ACTUAL units themselves. I did not read small parts of your comment, I read the entire thing, twice, and then posted my responses to each point, in separate quotes. I broke the comment up, but I did so in order. All I am saying is that instead of making points about what I SAY in the video, when my mind is racing and I'm also trying to play a game, and expressing thoughts that I may later change my mind about, how about we instead keep the discussion to actual facts about the factions?

Odysseus, I agree that hero trample damage was too large, and now its much more balanced, but its not just heroes that barely hurt them. It was also the ordinary cavalry of Haman and Sawman, they could barely do a thing. I personally think the easiest to kill are the swordsmen, the archers do SO much damage D:

Overall for Mordor, I think that the orc nerfs were justified, even though people can still make 4 orc pits plus their outposts and spam you into the ground, and I think they should have gotten a health nerf instead of a damage nerf, but I think they hit the Cirith Ungol barracks really hard. Cirith Ungol was a very key part of Mordor's early game, they were the units you could count on to actually make ground and push back the enemy, instead of just holding them with orcs.

Now, due to the barracks price increase and the ungol orcs no longer receiving discounts from the slave camps, I think that they have been rendered into an almost late game unit, and all Mordor has for early game is orcs, who lose against most other units. I would like to see Cirith Ungol returned to its previous state and instead of a cost increase, increase recruitment time and make them cost command points. That makes a hell of a lot more sense then turning them into a unit you cannot afford until late game.

Odysseus:
Only Black Uruk-Hai are exempted from the price decrease. Cirith Ungol Halberdiers still receive a decrease. It's less bad than you are making it sound imo. Although, I wouldn't mind putting Cirith Ungol back to 600.

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