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Mordor Balance Discussion

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Elite KryPtik:
First of all, this is a 3v3, balance is based off of 1v1. Additionally, Rhun is a terribly hard map for Rohan to get a good start on.

Now, big mistakes that the Rohan player made:

He didn't start with corrupted theo, thereby not getting traitors, cruel taxes or banishment.

He bought normal rohirrim instead of rohirrim of the eastfold, and got rohirrim archers far too early. A solid Eastfold spam would've done a lot more damage and cost far less.

He put an archery range in his base instead of on an outpost.

He didn't fill up his base with economy structures fast enough and didn't upgrade outer resource buildings fast enough.

He didn't get Gamling, and therefore didn't have a free source of peasants(FAIL)

He didn't creep his troll and let you steal it.

He didn't attack at all and played extremely passive, you played aggressive and took map control, look who won?

To sum it up: The Rohan player sucked. I'm sorry to say it and mean no offense but its true.

Obviously if a player has multiple outposts he can win, this is true for any unit not just orcs. Its not very easy to get an outpost with multiple orc tents in a 1v1 match against an experienced player. My opinion is still unchanged, Mordor orcs are fine. I might also point out that the Gondor player on your team was kicking the crap out of the enemy Mordor's basic orcs.

Odysseus:
Yes, I refrained from purpose to refer to the many mistakes the Rohan player made, but all I think is this: Mordor can just spam default orcs into infinity, and it won't cost him anything, apart from pop and a short amount of time. I know that 3v3 and 4v4 are a mess when it comes to balance, that is with all RTS games imo. So many factors exponentially skyrocketing, it's beyond control.

Still, all I want to say is that there are other tactics that can be employed by Mordor, but very few use them because spamming default free Orcs actually does the trick most of the time. It's so easy and it lacks strategy if you ask me. I like to encourage different build orders, but I suppose that is out of the question for Mordor, due to their expensive buildings that produce units.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. Et might change something, they might not.

Elite KryPtik:
Well the 2 big options for Mordor currently are to either go for orcs, or trolls. Trolls are too weak for their price tag right now, which is why everybody goes for orcs. If the Trolls received a buff then it would make it more desirable to use them. That's why I disagree with nerfing orcs, instead of weakening an already weak aspect lets strengthen a weak aspect that should be strong to begin with.

Hamanathnath:
I will agree that Orc Spam is decently hard to deal with, especially on the Rhun map because of the limited space.  But from past experiences, one good thing about countering Orc Spam is the honestly the amount of Power Points you get from killing the orcs.  Depending on what faction you are, you can get a Spellbook power that is really effective against orcs. 

Every faction has some sort of way dealing with Orc spam.  Archers and Cavalry, if used correctly, are incredibly effective against it. 

I agree that orc spam is really the only way people play mordor, but I think that is the case because of how ineffective starting with anything else is. 

I agree with the people that say Mountain Trolls need to be stronger.  They are really only good against swordsmen.  They also do good damage to buildings, but they are so easy to focus down.  They become a lot better when upgraded, and drummer trolls are very useful, but I think how much damage they take from heroes and archers is the problem.  I would suggest that they take less damage from both Heroes and Not Upgraded Arrows, and remove the ability for them to trample (because it is more of a problem then a benefit for Trolls because of how much health they lose from pikes), with a small price increase (maybe from 600 to 800).  Also, maybe the Armour upgrade should make them slightly more resistant to all arrows, if it doesn't already. 

Mollock has a lot of things that need some improvement, which is sad to say because of how good a troll hero could be.  The best Example of this is Rogash in Rise of the Witch King.  With only 3 abilities, he is able the best one of the best Mass Slayers in that game to do his High Damage, large AoE attack, High Armour, High Health, and extremely effective last 2 abilities.  Now obviously I think making Mollock that good would be too much, but Mollock needs a lot of boosts to stats right now.  He loses to cave troll lairs at level 1 if he is attacked first.  That's a pretty serious problem.

Elite KryPtik:
Heroes should still be able to deal decent damage against trolls, but right now even level 1 scout heroes can take a troll down fairly easily. Trolls should be weak to pikes and heroes, not arrows, pikes, heroes and pretty much everything else, as they are currently. Arrows shouldn't even hurt them unless their upgraded, the trolls thick skin would block the arrows.

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