[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Dwarven Balance Discussion

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Mogat:
I would acutally really like to see some replays with this matchup, because I don't see this matchup as onesided as you do.

You said Loriens archers don't do any damage vs. dwarves with shields. So why build archers and fight against the counter-system? Generally Archers are not worth their money in my opinion, even with Lorien (to a certain extent). I personally never build archers as elves. Why? Their damage is not excellent, they are expensive and if I want archers I cannot harass and spread my opponent thin with this. Lothlorines strength is speed, which can excellent be used to pin you opponent in and make him loose quickly.
With archers there is no way to be aggressive (and of course the other aspects I mentioned), and that is what you in edain always have to do.

If you use archers vs. other factions, this doesn't necessarily means, that there is only this one was to play. Sometimes strategy adapts according to enemy faction, which is good.

When I read: "It is also possible to win If you get map control early enough using Lothlorien Swords and Spears" I wonder what holds you back to do exacly this. (Leaving aside that this is anyways always the goal of a good player to get map-control.) So if a player stays defensive and builds archers vs. iron-hills a lost game is likely.

And if you let the dwarf build "an Outpost close to your Camp/Castle with a well and/or statue" then I wonder how he could spend 1200+ ress without being punished hard for this. As with every faction, you are fighting continuously on the map. If the dwarf pushes foreward to capture the outpost --> you harass him, or take an favourable engagement on the map with your quick units vs. the slow dwarves.

To put it short, those were my thoughts considering the matchup and the points brought up, but I would be happy if someone would proof me wrong. I am not as familiar with the fine aspects of balance in this new version, so a replay would help a lot. And I am always ready to test difficult matchups myself  :D :D

Hamanathnath:
You are right Mogat, if you are the Elves, you need to harass Dwarven Settlements to no end.  The problem is that Iron Hills Gaurdians beat Elven Swordmen because of their Armor Ability.  If the Iron Hills Dwarves are allowed to build up, they are near impossible to stop. 

Also remember that Battle Wagons were significantly improved, so if you are not harassing the Dwarves with Spears, expect to see a few of them.  And Spears cost more money, which lowers your harassing potential, and also have very little chance of winning against the Iron Hills Guardians.

Odysseus:
There is, however; one apparent issue with this. It lacks cohesion with the design of Lothlorien. I mean, they are supposed to be an archer superiority faction, so if the archers aren't bringing in the ''superiority'' then something is obviously wrong, no?

Also, Mogat, I wanted to say that your insight is valuable. It makes me question many things about the mod gameplay-wise, so thank you kindly for that!

Lord of Mordor:
The thing you have to keep in mind is that the shields only protect against ONE damage type. Heavy Armor doubles a Guardian's health against everything and grants +35% armor against archers as well. In comparison, we felt the shield's bonus had to be more extreme because otherwise it really doesn't do much for the price. Beornings and Galadhrim should be really good against shield guardians though, even with their armor ability. I'm not sure the best solution here is to make it so that Lorien can still "power through" the anti-archer upgrade by simply building more and better archers.

Though I do agree that Galadhon Guardians are pretty lame at the moment, I want to overhaul them sooner or later. With the next patch, we'll also be lowering the cost of all ranged units to the level of Pikemen (300 for regular units, 600 for elite like Galadhrim) to make them more attractive.

Odysseus:
I wanted to mention that, but I thought it'd be better if LoM did that. I don't want Ea to cut off my tongue :P.

I suppose you make fair points. The combination of the two gives them near archer immunity though. I don't know if that is really a good thing :/.

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