[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions

Dwarven Balance Discussion

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-DJANGO-:
I agree with most of the points you make and can garantee you, that some points will get changes with 4.5.
Axtthrowers deal so huge building damage because their damage type is melee. They benefit from the forged blade upgrade directly, therefore it is out of question that they are OP atm.
I agree with you, that all the attack bonus erebor gets are balanced through weak defense and mobile stats. However that is in my opinion only the case for the EG and MG. In LG Erebor becomes unstoppable in melee fights, which are hard to avoid. Why? Because Erebor has so many attack buffs that get even greater when combined with each other: Horn, Guardien Debuff, Masks, Dain (+50/+50 attack), Default high dwarven stats with upgrades, Axthrower melee damage. And dont forget Gimli, Arkenguard or even Veterans.

Battle wagons are only great if you outnumber your enemy cav due to their low speed. I'd like to see them more valnurable against pikes than against archer clumps. That causes in my opinion the dilemma of them being op and useless at the same time.

Odysseus:
Honestly, I think some of the buffs for both Erebor and Iron Hills should be revisited. I feel like, even though the team intends both realms to be very much one trick ponies in the offense and defense playstyle respectively, there are simply too many powerful buffs of the same type to them. I just wish the faction would get back some of the older versatility, with Erebor Dain the only giving armour, and the Iron Hill Dain battlecrying. It made complete sense lore-wise and it also wasn't bad gameplay-wise. I also think the horn spell could be made more interesting for the Dwarves. Maybe increase defense instead of offense for example, a little twist for once on the classic offensive horn spell.

Secret Keeper:
Hi everyone,

ET stated, that they want for every unit in a game to have a purpose and usefulness. I've never really thought about it but, what is a purpose of Lake-town units and Dale units in dwarven faction?

Let's consider Lake-town: for the same price as your regular units, you get worse outcome. Ered Luin swordsmen are faster, deal more damage, have better armor than Lake-town counterparts. The same goes for pikemen and bowmen. They do not fill any weak spot in Ered Luin army. They are not cavalry, elite bowmen/pikemen or heroic units. So what advantage I get when buying them?

It is not that bad with Dale: bowmen have useful ability and swordsmen have formation which allows them to be faster than Erebor units and do flank damage or harass an opponent very well. Pikemen on the other hand, not so usefull.

Ered Mithrin units are a great example have other two subfactions should look like. They have units Iron Hills normally cannot get, with useful abilities while they do not overlap with any other unit.

Let's be honest here, when was the last time you played Ered Luin and thought that you need to buy lake-town units to get an advantage over your enemy? I cannot think of such time.

Maybe I am wrong about everything. I would like to hear your opinions.

Odysseus:
That's a good point. There are a couple of factors that tie into this together, I think. First of all, Ered Luin being too strong with their default units, which diminishes the value of other units. Second of all, Lake-Town and Dale are usually rather bought for their economic strength, not really the military one. Thirdly Dale and Lake-Town do provide mostly utility and meatshielding, since Dwarves are low on number and quite slow in general. If you want to make them more combat-effective you have to invest upgrades into them.

In short, you get the Outpost for moneyz and meatshielding units since they have higher model count. And I suppose also for harass.

Secret Keeper:
Before dwarven overhaul in 4.3, Lake-town was a perfect addition to slow and defense orientated Ered Luin and when the big change came, Lake-town stayed sadly the same.

Something does not feel right about having them as meat-shield. They are too costly for letting them just die. Free orcs are meat-shield units, but 200/300 units hardly. I know that team is changing Ered Luin for 4.5 patch. I hope that something will be done about this also.

I know that this issue probably does not belong to Balance thread, but I did not want to post it in suggestion one as I have no suggestion on how to solve it. I've just wanted to point out a problem.

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