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Dwarven Balance Discussion

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Elite KryPtik:
Have you not seen the war chariot thread Odysseus? Its under Dwarven Suggestions, go check it out and post your thoughts there.

Draco100000:
I´m actually agree with CragLord, battlewagons should be stronger, keeping in mind that they are instakilled against pikes. The main argument is that if they get buffed they will be spammed, but just using wisely pikemen and ranged units, you can deal with lot of them. The reaction of the player would be make more pikes and caval to counter the enemie ( something like when you have to deal with rohan) The main problem isnt at all their strenght, the problem is that when they trample infantry they actually get dmg as the cavalry get dmg when trampling pikemen. So the bad thing is only this, when stuck the chariot will be also kicked by the infantry, so used well should be able to deal with infantry, but actually because of getting dmg just because of trampling it is completely useless. Heros kill chariots easily, specialy ranged ones.  So eliminating that dmg while trampling infantry should be enough, you will still making pikes, and thats all. In the other hand if you think that is fair that other faction can get the dwarves down only using swordsmen and archers..... Actually lothlorien have lot of advantage upon dwarves cause of their freaking ranged dmg. And if you try to kill some swordsmen with the chariot it just get killed in seconds. So actually this wont change their role or their use. They will still being instakilled by pikemen, but wont be completely useless. Is completely clear that is more worth to make mines instead lumbermills to get reduction cost on upgrades, so spam them is the most useless thing that you can do, specially with dwarves. When i Read the comment of Kryptik where he talk about get 10 of them...... camon thats completely useless, even getting that small buff. We are talking about make a completely useless unit in to a versatil one. And actually there are beornings that can destroy your ass in seconds, so why not good chariots edain team?

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: Draco100000 am 22. Nov 2015, 11:16 ---I´m actually agree with CragLord, battlewagons should be stronger, keeping in mind that they are instakilled against pikes. The main argument is that if they get buffed they will be spammed, but just using wisely pikemen and ranged units, you can deal with lot of them. The reaction of the player would be make more pikes and caval to counter the enemie ( something like when you have to deal with rohan) The main problem isnt at all their strenght, the problem is that when they trample infantry they actually get dmg as the cavalry get dmg when trampling pikemen. So the bad thing is only this, when stuck the chariot will be also kicked by the infantry, so used well should be able to deal with infantry, but actually because of getting dmg just because of trampling it is completely useless. Heros kill chariots easily, specialy ranged ones.  So eliminating that dmg while trampling infantry should be enough, you will still making pikes, and thats all. In the other hand if you think that is fair that other faction can get the dwarves down only using swordsmen and archers..... Actually lothlorien have lot of advantage upon dwarves cause of their freaking ranged dmg. And if you try to kill some swordsmen with the chariot it just get killed in seconds. So actually this wont change their role or their use. They will still being instakilled by pikemen, but wont be completely useless. Is completely clear that is more worth to make mines instead lumbermills to get reduction cost on upgrades, so spam them is the most useless thing that you can do, specially with dwarves. When i Read the comment of Kryptik where he talk about get 10 of them...... camon thats completely useless, even getting that small buff. We are talking about make a completely useless unit in to a versatil one. And actually there are beornings that can destroy your ass in seconds, so why not good chariots edain team?

--- Ende Zitat ---
Yes Draco, I tried to explain exactly that in more comments.
Experienced players know how to counter Battlewagons spam (not only battlewagons, but any spam of any units), but I really don't know why there should be spam anyway if we look on this in objective way.
And yes, I proposed in all comments above increase of battlewagon armor against swordsmen or to be precise against melee basic units, because current situation (as you have confirmed in some way) is really strange, battle wagons shouldn't take any serious damage from trampling melee basic units except pikes.

Regards,
CragLord

Odysseus:
Good day,

Before I start a seperate thread about this, I wanted to gather some opinions here first. I wanted to talk about the Dragon Slayer of the Iron Hills and its current performance and implementation.

After having done a few quick direct tests in WB and in skirmish, I noticed a few things:

1. The single target damage of the Dragon Slayer's sword is gargantuan. I think it can tear down an average resource structure without upgrades in 4-5 hits. This is something no other hero (that I am aware of) can do, not even the dedicated anti-building ones. Do you think the performance of the Dragon Slayer is currently justified? Is he too strong? Too weak? Would love to hear a bit about this.

2. So far, most Dragons in the past BFME renditions have been flying units, apart from that old Isengard dragon PP spell if I recall correctly. How exactly will a full melee Dragon Slayer actually slay a flying dragon in the future? Is there any information about this? This one is a little off-topic perhaps, but I wanted to put it out there anyway.

3. You can build multiple Dragon Slayers which if all equipped with a sword, can take down a camp in a short amount of time. On top of that, he isn't expensive, only 600. The Hunters are more expensive than a conceptually designed hero (unit). Although they are of course weaker than true heroes, but their single sword damage is maybe just as high as the Witch King's Level 10 ability, perhaps even more with Forged Blades. So, a ''hero'' you can get multiple times sounds rather strange. Any thoughts?

4. What if we turned the Dragon Slayer into a real, full-fledged hero, specifically designed to deal with monsters, not just through sheer damage, but also via abilities? He would be similar to a CAH created hero. Would there be any animo for this?

I look forward to hearing your opinions!

Kind regards.

Adrigabbro:
Actually I haven't been able to play much with Ered Mithrin for I mostly choose Erebor but I am gonna try. If what you say is true, I could use such unit. :D

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