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Lothlórien Balance Discussion

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Adrigabbro:
Yay, Great news! :)

Odysseus:
I'm all in favour of giving more attention and importance to the Elven warriors and dimishing Beorningers to support role only.

However, I'm not sure if buffing the Lorien warriors is the thing to do. One of the top players in the Warhammer 40k Elite Mod forums once said: If you have an overpowered and an underpowered thing, always nerf the overpowered thing first, never first buff the underpowered one, because it will screw with more matchups that have already been proven to be right.

I concur with this, it's simply an issue of the default orcs still doing a bit too much damage compared to their cost. However, a straigt up nerf is usually not such a good idea. I would be in favour of decreasing their damage by 5-10% again but also decreasing their build time by a couple of seconds to get them on the field just a teensy bit earlier for ample compensation. Then, Beorningers are receiving some nerfs, while the Lorien warriors will be receiving some buffs.

Sounds good to me, all in all.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:

--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 24. Jan 2016, 16:01 ---One of the top players in the Warhammer 40k Elite Mod forums once said: If you have an overpowered and an underpowered thing, always nerf the overpowered thing first, never first buff the underpowered one

--- Ende Zitat ---
You talking about that guy? :P

Back to topic though: It's not that easy. Orcs vs Lorien swordsmen usually ends up in very few surviving elves on low hp, which is probably one of the reasons why they are considered to be too strong atm. Gondor swordsmen on the other hand don't have this problem at all, half of the batallion survives the fight even without using their formation. Nerfing orcs into the ground would just lead to Mordor getting roflstomped by Gondor, which is also not desirable. Just putting it out there that the matchup thing works both ways ;)

Elite KryPtik:
Glad to hear the problem is known by the team, never saw an indication of this on the English part of the beta forums.

Yes, your right about Gondor soldiers vs orcs, and that's not the only matchup. Nerfing orcs will really hurt Mordor against several other factions early game, especially Rohan, which is why I'm against it.

Odysseus:
I was indeed talking about him, but it's not purely his quote. It came from HolyHammer first, IIRC, a long term DOW II pro player.

Anyway, I don't wish to nerf Orcs into the ground, but to me, Mordor rolls any faction with less trouble than the others. So, somewhere, Mordor is overperforming. While I agree that default Lorien Swordsmen are rather lacking at the moment, it is in my opinion not solely because of that, but rather because we compare nearly every situation to Mordor, because we are mostly aware that Mordor is pretty much the strongest faction at any stage of the game. When I observe Mordor play, I focus on the things that lead to breakthroughs in fights or to shifting tides. This is usually siege or the spam of a certain unit with most factions. In Mordor's case, it's both siege and orcs. Heroes give the spam some bulk, but most of the times, you can outspam enemy formations and buy enough time to replace your losses.

I am fine with giving the default troops of Lorien some attention, because they seem to be bypassed quite quickly, especially by Mirkwood's units, which seem to replace them, instead of working alongside them.

Regarding the Gondor Soldiers, I think it's quite obvious that they survive because they have so many models to spread the damage over. Oh and that Gondor simply rocks :P.

Nonetheless, we shall see what the tidings bring. I just wish to depromote the ''spam'' of units. If my suggestions make Orc spam less popular, so be it, even if it contradicts Mordor's design. The more diverse an army composition is, the more fun the game should be, if you ask me.

(Ps. @Elendils Cousin 3. Grades, do you follow Elite mod, per chance?)

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