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Lothlórien Balance Discussion

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Bogdan Hmel:
 But they cause too much damage to buildings(Beornings).

(Palland)Raschi:

--- Zitat --- But they cause too much damage to buildings(Beornings).
--- Ende Zitat ---

I do not consider this fact to be a Problem at all. Lorien does not have a great amount of siege weapons in its arsenal and Ents are not as cheap, effective and early available as most rams are.
Therefore Lorien Needs this Kind of unit in the first periods of time of the game to harm buildings effectively.

Elite KryPtik:
Well I'm comparing it to Berserkers, when last I played 4 berserkers aren't able to kill a hero. Also I may have exaggerated a bit, it was in the heat of battle so its hard to tell for sure how many were hitting me. All I know is that 4 beornings killed 2 of my nazgul and Gorbag, and the only units supporting them were a couple of lorien archers/warriors. I was backed up by 2 units of ungol halberds and black uruks, as well as a bunch of basic orcs, and the tiny army beat mine because of the beornings.

Odysseus:
EDIT: On advise of the ET, I posted my topic here instead. I thought it was large enough to warrant its own thread, but it seems I was wrong.

Good day fellow Edainers,

I had a few issues I stumbled upon when playing with or against Lothlorien, and some of the upcoming points have already been mentioned before by fellow Edainers. I tried shifting tactics to deal with these issues, but in vain so far (4 games so far, 1 Gondor, 1 Mordor, 2 Isengard). The nature of these balance issues is such, that there is no different result depending on the faction I play with. I am aware that the faction is still somewhat in an early stage of balance, so hiccups are naturally present, but they would need addressment as soon as possible if only for the health of the competitive environment of the mod. Please be aware that this is not a rant or anything of the sort, but a global observation from both watching and playing with and against the new faction.

Although before I do that, I wanted to say that I enjoy most of the mechanics you gave to Lothlorien's units, and that the majority of the infantry and heroes feel accurate and are fun to use. Most of the standard units for both Lorien and Mirkwood have a variety of tactics and strategies to offer, so well done in that regard!

However, when it comes to the heroes and a certain unit, I sincerely believe that work has to be done. I would not say you dropped the ball on them, but you were close if it was up to me to say.

Now, on to points of constructive criticism I present including the corresponding suggestions underneath:

1. Beornings and Grimbeorn
It has been mentioned before by for instance Kryptik, and it concerns Beornings. How do I put this...Beornings are astonishingly overpowered. This is a term I do not use lightly, I reserve it for the most extreme cases, without sounding too dramatic, I hope. They cost 350 per model, are unlimited in purchasing number, have a large amount of health, are resistant to arrows and 2 of them (350x2=700) can take down, for instance, any Isengard Hero in a cinch. Personally, I have little issues with the bear form since they have clearer weaknesses, however it is somewhat superfluous since the axe form can take down heroes, infantry and buildings with a couple of swings. Beorning is less problematic since he is very expensive and comes late, but his kinsmen are not.

My suggestion: Nerf them, a lot. Increase their vulnerability to arrows, increase their cost to 500, decrease their damage against buildings and heroes and, if necessary, put a limit on them (something around 5). They really need it, honestly, since they are not too hard to get out in numbers and whence they are focus firing your heroes or buildings, the game's result has probably already been decided on.

Perhaps an idea would be too switch the cost for Galadriel and Grimbeorn? Or would that be too much to ask?

2. Thranduil
Thranduil is too strong at the moment. I am aware that he is supposed to be a tank, but he also does quite a bit of damage. In fact, I was playing as Isengard and he could manhandle Lurtz and Ugluk, at the same time, mind you. He was Level 2-3 and both my Ugluk and Lurtz were Level 1. I made use of cripple to get a couple of free shots and still had to use Ugluk's medicine to have him survive from fighting against Thranduil. His arcane shield seems a little inconsistent, but I might be wrong. I'll have to double check that again.

My suggestion: Reduce Thranduil's overall damage and make it on par with Boromir's. Either less health and more damage, or the other way around, but I think you guys know how this works.

3. Hawk Strike
Legolas' Hawk Strike, well..sorry to say it, I really do not wish to employ such a bloated term again, but extremely overpowered. Take an average hero costing between 1000-1400 and the ability can instantly put his/her health in the red zone, from full health without any issues. To make it worse, it has very long range, so running from it is very hard to do. Rather frustrating to to be under constant pressure from an ability such as this.

My suggestion: It should be nerfed in terms of damage of course. Severely. I am not sure how much damage it does exactly since I haven't accessed the files yet, but it had me baffled for a moment since one moment I had a full health Level 4 Wulfgar, and a moment later, he suddenly had about a quarter of health from Legolas' Hawk Strike.

4. Wine Cellar Hero cost reduction
The Wine Cellar reducing the price of Mirkwood's heroes by 20% per Cellar is too cost-effective as it stands, since Mirkwood's heroes are very powerful at the moment. While this is probably not the most pressing concern of the four, it might still be something to look at.

My suggestion: Slightly nerf the hero cost reduction feature. Instead of 20%, perhaps we could try 15% first to 30% for a second cellar.
Thoughts on Lothlorien's remaining heroes:

1. Galadriel
I really enjoy how you designed Galadriel's role and ability roster. She is very strong in her supportive role taking care of both buildings and unarmoured units, but she has a clear weakness: Most heroes. I think she is the best designed hero of the faction, and a lot of care and attention went to her, which is clearly visible.

2. Haldir
Haldir is fine so far, I feel. Classic Haldir.

3. Celeborn
Celeborn I'm not so sure about, he is taken down quickly by a couple of infantry squads, but he is even a better hero killer than Aragorn is. Very high attack speed, damage and his annoying abilities means he can take out multiple heroes if they are not protected by troops. Depending on the situation, I find him just right with a clear counter, or way too powerful, being able to take out multiple heroes without too much effort. Perhaps a slight price boost to 2500?
That is it so far. I hope you will take the time to read my concerns as it took me some time to make this post. As it stands, I enjoy playing with Lothlorien, but playing against the faction has been a somewhat frustrating experience for me so far, something which I have not had that much with the other factions.

I look forward to your thoughts!

Kind regards,

Odysseus

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Odysseus am 11. Nov 2015, 15:55 ---EDIT: On advise of the ET, I posted my topic here instead. I thought it was large enough to warrant its own thread, but it seems I was wrong.


--- Ende Zitat ---

As this is not a Brief Suggestions thread, there are theoretically no boundaries in length or width, if not obviously Reason itself  :)

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