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Evil Men Faction

Yes an Evil Men faction would be great with all of the realms combined.
73 (64.6%)
I like the evil men the way they are now.
6 (5.3%)
I think they should not have a faction but i would like more units from the spellbook.
3 (2.7%)
Harad And Rhun should be two separate factions.
31 (27.4%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 110

Autor Thema: A possible new Evil Men faction  (Gelesen 10171 mal)

Offline lotr1997

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A possible new Evil Men faction
« am: 3. Jan 2016, 00:26 »
Hello Edain community! I was thinking about Evil Men in Edain, and I really think they are underused, If there is a topic on this anywhere else I apologize. My proposal is that, the Evil Men are so diverse they truly deserve their own faction. So this is a very talked about topic on Moddb from what I see, and I want to basically just give some ideas on this topic  :D. This of course would be added after all the already existing factions are released.


   So first of all the faction would be titled 'Evil Men' and would have units from mainly Rhun and Harad. So here are some of the buildings i see fit for the Evil Men, a standard resource building would be a Easterling crop farm. The men for a barracks could have a Haradrim Palace which would train Haradrim and a Easterling training ground which would train Easterlings. For upgrades the men can have a armory of sorts and a market like Gondor for Economic upgrades. Then they would have of course, the Mumak Pen which would train Mumakil. Then they could have stables of Harad which would train there cavalry which will be explained soon. The settlements could be Variag tent and it would train Variag Swords and Spears of Khand, and then a Rhun Wind Mill like seen on the Rhun map, this would be a resource building. The outposts would be a regular 3 build-plot outpost, and then a Corsair village. This village's upgrades would be Housing area adds a few houses and they generate taxes, Statue to Sauron,  this heals units and gives them 25% armor and fear resistance, then a tower that shoots arrows. Then a Corsair tavern that trains Corsair plunderers (regular Corsairs with a new name),and Corsair archers. For a final upgrade it could have Ballista maker which would construct Ballistae like Isengard's.

    The Units from the Haradrim Palace would be: Haradrim Swords, Haradrim Archers, Haradrim Skirmishers, and then for an elite unit The Half-Trolls of Far Harad. The Easterlings training ground would train the following: Easterlings ( the already existing spearmen from the spellbook), the Rhun Halberds (also from the Mordor spell), and finally Easterling guards which would be a new design completely. From the Mumakil Pen: Mumakil, and then a  'War Spikes' upgrade that would give them their nice spikes. Then from the stables: Easterling Riders (standard cavalry unit), and then the elite of the elite the Serpent Guard.
   
So this is my small little proposal of what in my opinion and Evil men faction should be like. Please tell me in the comments what you all think of this idea!
   
   
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Offline Lord of Mordor

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #1 am: 3. Jan 2016, 00:35 »
Talking about new factions at the moment isn't too productive because we're still busy reworking all of our old factions for 4.0 ;) If we ever do introduce new factions, however, I agree the Evil Men are one of the strongest candidates.
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Offline lotr1997

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #2 am: 3. Jan 2016, 00:39 »
Zitat
Talking about new factions at the moment isn't too productive because we're still busy reworking all of our old factions for 4.0 ;) If we ever do introduce new factions, however, I agree the Evil Men are one of the strongest candidates.
this topic is really just giving some ideas for later ON  :D  and i also understand that it would not be very productive thats why i said " This of course would be added after all the already existing factions are released." This was more of a suggestion for the future :)
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Offline HoarmurathOfDir

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #3 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:00 »
1. I  definitly think that they should have a separate Harad and Rhun sub-factions, working somewhat like the dwarves, BUT with some special mechanics (not a dwarf copy paste, that would be boring). I can't think of anything, but just think about how ridiculus it would look to have Rhun and Harad buildings in one Camp/Citadel.
2. I think I have a small idea for a basic settlement that is so cool and 100% lore-accurate that I must post it. So, Rhun could build a "Wainrider Camp" on their basic settlement, and it would work as a factory for the "Wainrider Wagons" - a Battlewagon Reskin/Remodel, that would be such a perfect touch!  ;)
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Offline Walküre

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #4 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:05 »
I agree with Lord of Mordor.

Also, if you look at the previous pages of this and the Edain Discussion section, you will see that it has been so far a 'consolidated policy' locking threads that involve this matter, since, as I and other people already wrote here and on ModDB, these speculations, being valuable or not, are technically and formally not suggestions at all, since there is not any known plan about a possible Evil Men faction, apart from voices.

Therefore, I think that this topic could be carried on in the Off-Topic section, as an exception, since it does involve LOTR/BFME-related matters, but it's nonetheless based on pure speculations that can't be part, for now, of the Edain Mod Suggestions boards, I guess  :)

Offline Fredius

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #5 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:24 »
You know, in the German side of the suggestion forums there is already a whole proposal made for the Evil Men faction. The whole faction is fleshed out in a 4 page discussion :D. Here is the link, just try using google translate: http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32289.0.html

Offline NetoD20

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #6 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:39 »
I didn't want to enter details like units, heroes, etc. on this because of the reasons the Lord of Gifts and DieWalküre pointed out, and because we don't even know if they would be an agressive or defensive faction. When I helped stirring up this discussion on ModDB I was more worried about other contenders for the two faction "slots" to be filled after the remaining announced factions are released. In fact, I still am interested in any other possible factions that could be implemented, besides the Men of Darkness, because I can think of none.

In the case of no other strong contestants, I think the ideal thing would be for Rhûn and Harad, or Easterlings and Southrons to use more general names, to be separate factions, but I may be wrong in this. Lore-wise it makes sense given how big a territory these people occupy and how diverse their culture is, having many separate tribes and peoples under the Easterling and Southron umbrellas. These diverse peoples could be turned into units, but maybe I'm exagerating, and there isn't that much material for two whole factions. There certainly is for at least one, not to mention artwork I've been digging.

In either case, even though I said that I don't want to enter into details, I had this general idea of a mobile wainrider outpost or building. Given how these people live, travel, and wage war in their wagons, I guess it would be interesting and unique in the mod to have a wagon-building, or maybe a building formed by many wagons, that is capable to be moved around and relocated in the battlefield.
« Letzte Änderung: 3. Jan 2016, 02:10 von NetoD20 »

Offline NetoD20

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #7 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:40 »
You know, in the German side of the suggestion forums there is already a whole proposal made for the Evil Men faction. The whole faction is fleshed out in a 4 page discussion :D. Here is the link, just try using google translate: http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32289.0.html

Oh, lawd, this is going to take a while...
But thank you Fredius, I'll take a look.

Offline Walküre

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #8 am: 3. Jan 2016, 01:56 »
That is the German Community, and I don't really know the reasons why they could open a thread that involves this topic, or what reasons the Edain Team or the German Moderators had to allow the debate to legitimately continue, and I'm not questioning that.

As I wrote above, all the threads of this kind in the English forum were closed by the three Moderators that have been present so far in the English Community  :)
And I totally agree with their reasons, being myself one of them in the first place  :D

You can behold yourself.

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32197.msg419799.html#msg419799

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32052.msg416746.html#msg416746

http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31514.msg404259.html#msg404259

It's like in the Common Law.
It's a sort of precedent case in the 'Moderating Law' of MU  ;)
And, as I explained on ModDB, the reasons of this 'consolidated practice' are based both on the known reasons already mentioned and various pronouncements of the Edain Team in this direction.

But, as you can see, nothing has been locked.
I just moved this thread in this section, as we are virtually talking about something that technically doesn't exist neither as an actually existing element nor as an announced plan.
But, all opinions are obviously more than welcomed, and I too support the general pillars of this topic as I stated on ModDB.

If there is an official statement regarding this suggestion, I will be more than happy to move this thread again, and 'restore' it as a regular proposal  :)

Offline Fredius

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #9 am: 3. Jan 2016, 03:02 »
Oh wait Walk my post wasn't meant as a reply to your previous post, I just wanted to notify everyone that in the German forums there already was a proposal about this idea [ugly].

Offline lotr1997

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #10 am: 3. Jan 2016, 07:29 »
Zitat
if there is an official statement regarding this suggestion, I will be more than happy to move this thread again, and 'restore' it as a regular proposal  :)
Well if it does i would like to say thank you :D
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Offline lord_ellessar

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #11 am: 3. Jan 2016, 12:00 »
I think it should be a haradrim  big camp (they are the light units for the early game) and outside,

With the little camp:
  Far harad (already proposed)
.  Mumak and a mahud hero
  Corsairs outpost
.  The captain and corsairs
  Outpost
.  This could be a place, as already said they could have a unique unit that provide ressources and it could be a rally point where the caravan goes to get ressources.

With the three buildplots,
  Probably more something like a rhun stronghold where you can train heavier units like the mirkwood one or the dale one...
.  Easterlings pikmens
.  Easterlings swordsman
.  Easterlings archers
.  One or twoo heroes,...

The powers:
Sandstorm
Scorpions
Arid lands
Etc...

Offline Walküre

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #12 am: 3. Jan 2016, 14:04 »
Oh wait Walk my post wasn't meant as a reply to your previous post, I just wanted to notify everyone that in the German forums there already was a proposal about this idea [ugly].


Oh, sorry  :D

Don't worry, I wanted to explain some things anyway, about the reasons why we generally closed threads of this kind, and I really didn't know that in the German forum there even were very specific suggestions.
So, thank you for having pointed it out  ;)

You see, your contribution is always precious, Fredius  :P

Offline Fredius

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #13 am: 3. Jan 2016, 18:01 »
You saw the opportunity and you took it eh xD?

In any case I myself hope it will be divided into 2 factions, because Rhun and Harad each have too much stuff and allies to be put into 1 faction. I'd say Harad and Umbar should be one faction, and Rhun and Khand the other. But only if there are no plans atm for other factions xD.

Offline NetoD20

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #14 am: 3. Jan 2016, 21:02 »
You saw the opportunity and you took it eh xD?

In any case I myself hope it will be divided into 2 factions, because Rhun and Harad each have too much stuff and allies to be put into 1 faction. I'd say Harad and Umbar should be one faction, and Rhun and Khand the other. But only if there are no plans atm for other factions xD.

I agree woth Fredius, in my Mirkwood castle proposal someone stated that the Team thinks (rightfully) that Men are the most important in the Third Age, so it makes sense to me for there to be 4 whole human factions, even though I think humans are kind of borinzzzzzzzz... kidding lol
I don't see any other strong cadidates besides Rhûn and Harad, and for whatever reason I recently took some liking for Rhûn (I think it's Khamûl's creepy charisma :P ).

I believe it is important for these factions to be very exotic, we could have new creatures native from those places not seen in other factions of te mod, like scorpions and serpents. Edain has a lot of animal motiffs, if you stop to think about it; raven, ram and boar for the dwarves; thrush for Dale; swam for Dol Amroth; bears for beorningers; spiders for Dol Guldur and Cirith Ungol; eagles for the elves in general, and deer/elk for Mirkwood. Also we could see the legendary were-worms (NOT as they appear in the movie, something more like the old Goblin Earth Worm spell in the vanilla game).

Also, considering the possibility of two separate factions of Rhûn and Harad, I think it would be really great if one of them (Rhûn for their having armor and metal working) to be a defensive faction and the other (Harad and their light soldiers) to be an agressive faction, it would further differentiate them. Let's acknowledge that people non-versed in lore may not even know of Rhûn from the movies. They may think that the evil men in the Black Gate scene of Two Towers are the same kind of men that attack Minas Tirith with the oliphaunts, and also the same as the corsairs. So to some people the eastern cultures of Middle-Earth are just a jumble of bad guys allied to orcs, and the more these  two factions could be different from one another the best, and also the subfactions within these factions.

Also I've just came across this nice artwork for a variag the other day (it's actually pretty common, most people here must know it), I think it's really good, and could inspire a model for a unit in the mod: