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Evil Men Faction

Yes an Evil Men faction would be great with all of the realms combined.
73 (64.6%)
I like the evil men the way they are now.
6 (5.3%)
I think they should not have a faction but i would like more units from the spellbook.
3 (2.7%)
Harad And Rhun should be two separate factions.
31 (27.4%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 110

Autor Thema: A possible new Evil Men faction  (Gelesen 10133 mal)

Offline Slawek56703

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #30 am: 9. Jan 2016, 17:32 »
I was the only one who voted for more units from spelbook he he . I think Rhun or Harad
can replace Mordor on certain maps like Arnor/Gondor or maybe 3rd option on small camp (the one with 3 build plots ) curently used Minas Morgul / Cirith Ungol the 3rd option could me Evil men faction and then option for Harad or Rhun (player choice) Of course summoned units still exist well lets say summoned are uniqe and in this camp for evil man harad had no mumakil and Rhun ummm lets say Soldier of Rhun ? or whatever they called
there are currently if i no mistaken 2 Pike units Rhun so one summoned and Normal Easterling possible to Recruit . This is all Sorry for Language
PS : we need horns sounds from lotr when we summon Harad /Rhun elites 

CragLord

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #31 am: 9. Jan 2016, 19:09 »
I am not so found of camp version. I think that current outpost buildings are very reasonable and nice. Concerning "evil men" role in Mordor faction, I think that current situation is nice and "enough". They were mainly supporters to Sauron, and one of main reinforcements during WOTR. So their current situation as summon power is very fitting in Mordor faction, and I wouldn't like to see that changed.
Also suggestion of replacing Mordor on some maps maybe has sence, but again I don't see that as fitting suggestion. That basicaly means that you need again to "build" new faction in purpose of using it on some maps.
If there are tendency of creating this new faction (and there are enough material from lore which indicates that we can create this new faction as separate one) then it should be done as one independent faction (nothing similar to Arnor/Gondor).
Also Mordor is already "the most powerful faction". Adding this new Outpost will just make faction overdosed.
Making more units from summoning spell is more balance thing, again I find current summons pretty nice (except maybe lack of Haradrim archers) in lore and balance terms.
From lore materil it is obvious that "Men of the East" need seperate faction in my opinion. Question is 1 or 2? :) xD

PS. I just want to say (as in my previous comment), there is enough materil for new faction concerning "evil men", just we need to anylize that material in very detailed way before suggesting anything.

Regards,
CragLord

Offline lotr1997

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #32 am: 18. Jan 2016, 19:46 »
I agree with CragLord, I want Separate Factions if it ever does come to the game.
There is only one lord of the rings, only one who can bend it to his will, and he does not share power!

Offline Skeetles

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #33 am: 21. Jan 2016, 21:47 »
My personal bias is towards a single faction, split in two representing the northern and southern branches of the evil men, with harad/southrons having a umbar/black númenórean sub faction and the rhûn/easterlings having a khandish sub faction.
(Preferably it would mimic the dwarves in a lot of ways)

I also think that the spells mordor has shouldn't be changed, except maybe replacing one of the horsemen units in the harad spell with archers, but even that's pushing it a bit (since I can't personally recall much mention of archers, the reinforcements in the pelennor were mostly cavalry)

I'm wondering how you guys would imagine an evil men faction would play, though? Since they're the most likely candidate to become a thing.

Personally I think Harad would be mostly light armor, hard hitting raider faction with some 'glass cannon' elites save for maybe a solid elite infantry half troll unit or elite guard in form of númenóreans, with fast anti-economy umbar units.

Rhûn would be more of the opposite, but still offensively oriented (keeping up with the evil factions roster, ofcourse) their units sporting heavy armor from the get-go but lacking the heavier hitting base line. Their elites would be designed to fight the dwarves head-on and keep up with their late-game armor insanity.
Khandish should be a build plot for them, and provide cheaper and faster units more in line with my thoughts for umbar, with an elite unit with high damage to armor.

Offline bookworm1138

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #34 am: 22. Jan 2016, 06:12 »
working off your idea, Skeetles, here is what i would suggest:

Suggestion 1: a Rhun fortress as the base fortress, since most of the people commenting on this thread seem to agree with Rhun being more "stable" as opposed to Harad's more nomadic culture. The outposts can create two different camps: a Rhun camp and a Harad camp. They would both act like the regular outposts for Gondor, Rohan, Isengard and Mordor, with three build-plots on them.

The Harad camp would build the Haradrim Palace, the Umbar Tavern and the Mumakil Pen. The Harad camp will be like the one in BfMe1, which trains Haradrim units: Archer, Spear-Thrower, a Mahud half-troll elite warrior and the Harad cavalry. The Mumakil Pen would, of course, train Mumaks. The Umbar Tavern (or you can make a more Byzantine-style structure, reflecting Umbar's place as the former trade center of the Numenorean civilization at the vanguard of Haradwaith, just as Constantinople was the trade gateway for the Eastern Roman Empire on the edge of the eastern lands in the real world) would train Umbar corsairs (the ones from the standard BfME2) and elite archers (as Umbar, especially in the films, is depicted as a ship-fairing nation, long-range archers would be most useful firing from the decks of their black ships).

I feel that the Variags of Khand, as they are the one sub-faction with the least known about them according to the official lore (and not even appearing in the movies), should be represented on an expansion plot building, similar to the Ranger Tents or Beorning Hut. While I know that the Edain Team is rather fond of the Lord of the Rings table-top game, I found the bushido-samurai style of the Variags therefrom to be a bit too real-world recognizable. I would recommend, since "Variag" is similar to the real-world word "Varangian", the Variags of Khand would be a nomadic Black Numenorean sub-faction, almost like super-evil Norsemen (the book also describes them with axes and beards like Dwarves).

Suggestion 2: since this is a faction of Evil Men, we start off with a no-walls Black Numenorean fortress, representing that the Black Numenorean servants of Sauron (like the Mouth of Sauron) were the ones that brought the Men of Darkness back under the sway of Sauron. then, in similar fashion to the Dwarves, you can choose whether to have Rhun or Umbar as the main faction. the main problems with this suggestion would be the lack of originality, since this would be a repeat of the Dwarves, and that it would require expanding Umbar, since having a massive Harad fortress would be unlike their nomadic nature. also it would probably be hard to have the AI use this as well.

Additional suggestions about units and their roles:

Rhun:

Easterling Swordsmen - light melee unit
Easterling Pikemen - anti-cavalry melee unit
Soldiers of Rhun - elite anti-cavalry melee unit
Balchoth Lancer - light cavalry
Rhunic Cataphract - heavy cavalry
Wain-Rider - elite ranged cavalry
Blue Acoltye - elite spellcaster/siege unit

Khand Subfaction:

Variag Berserker - elite melee unit

Harad:

Haradrim Archer - light ranged unit
Haradrim Spear-Thrower - elite ranged unit
Mahud Half-Troll - elite melee unit
Haradrim Cavalry - medium cavalry
Mumakil - elite ranged cavalry/siege unit

Umbar Subfaction:

Corsair of Umbar - elite melee unit
Umbar Archer - elite ranged unit

The Easterling Swordsmen would fit into the first suggestion, filling in the role of light melee unit that, until now, Rhun has been lacking. The Blue Acolyte would be based on what little we know about the Blue Wizards, with one rumor being that they founded (unintentionally or not) magic cults during their ventures into the East. It certainly seems to be the most fantastical element here, and would seem more fantastic on the field of battle, throwing fire-balls to tear down fortress walls, but my thoughts on this matter were to have a siege unit that was wholly unique and not just another catapult (the Haradrim have the Mumakil, which could very much be used as a siege unit as well as a troop carrier and walking garrisonable tower). Other suggestions for a more "realistic" Rhun siege weapon are welcome.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."


Offline Skeetles

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #35 am: 23. Jan 2016, 21:25 »
Maybe after choosing Harad the fortress would become a more nomad-style camp.
I really like the idea of the black númenóreans/umbar getting more love, since their influence more or less extends to nearly every evil faction, I think they should get their own special treatment.
Maybe they could be the primary faction, or the one tying the other two together.
I wouldn't want it to underplay the roles of the other two at all though, as they would probably be the primary sources of units, with the late game having possible numenorian options.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #36 am: 23. Jan 2016, 22:04 »
On Evil Men and Blue Wizards
First and foremost I believe if at all possible due to how “big” both Harad and Rhun are they should be two fractions, as in a combined fraction one would dominate and diminish the other. Secondly try as I might I cannot come up with another good fraction bar the Moriquendi, Avari and the dwarfs that dwell in Rhun. With those thoughts in mind on to my actual suggestion.
In a Harad fraction I believe they should be the Lorien for the evil fractions, that is to say they have a small building requirement to represent their tribal nature. The main camp/fortress would have buildplots for watchtowers with neither having walls to represent how aggressive Harad is. The central spot should be a Chieftains Hut to recruit Heroes. The buildings you can build here should be: murkmil pen to recruit murkmil and advance archers, simple tents to recruit basic infantry and upgrade your population, lavish tents to recruit basic cavalry, a tribute camp for resources and a blacksmith to improve your units. The settlements spots should be a trading post, slavers hut and Harad Camp, to recruit basic infantry. On outposts you could build a Harad Outpost similar to the Lorien Outpost, a Variags camp and an Umbar Tavern. The camp would have three building plots which could build a raiders gathering to produce advance infantry, riders post to build advance cavalry and a stockpile to generate resources. The Umbar tavern would produce advance infantry and could be upgraded with a tower and improved walls. Their spell book would consist of sand and Mordor themed powers such as sandstorm, encroaching sand and Mordor and Harad reinforcements. Their ring hero would be the Harad Chieftain. Their buildings would upgrade by producing units.
At this point there would be five good fractions ad five evil fractions so I propose that Rhun has the option of being good or evil similar to the dwarf’s choice of sub fraction. As such the spell book would be themed around neutral eastern spells. Regardless their main fortress would have walls with a camp having light walls. On Rhun regardless of fraction you would have at the main fortress a barracks for basic infantry, a stable for cavalry and a blacksmith for upgrading units. The evil buildings would be a tribute camp, and a siege workshop for mechanical siege engines. The good buildings would be a wizard’s enclave for magical siege units and a tax office. On settlements you can build a windmill and a farm for resources. The good building would be an Avari camp to represent their wild nature and to offer advance infantry similar to Cirith Ungol. The evil building would be a Mordor outpost for the same reason as the Avari camp. The neutral outpost would be he Rhun outpost with the three building spots. The evil outposts would be a Harad Embassy with the upgrades of a Murkmil Pen, Umbar Tavern and Tents. The other outposts would be the “eastern abode of the Dark Lord is briefly noted in The Silmarillion as a place which he surrounded with fire.” Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh%C3%BBn. It would offer advance Mordor units and be the Mordor fortress. The good outposts would be a Dwarf Embassy to offer dwarf units and a Moriquendi Palace to offer advance mages and cavalry. The core hero for the evil side would be Khamul with good being the Blue Wizards, these are also the ring heroes.   
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline Rob_13

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #37 am: 13. Apr 2016, 18:10 »
My idea here would be to add a single Evil-Men faction with the option to choose between Harad and Rhun subfactions (like Dwarves do), each faction with their own units and buildings, but maybe use the Tavern to recruit basic infantry from the other subfaction, for example, if you picked Rhun as your main faction you can recruit in the Tavern basic Harad infantry like swordsmen, archers or lancers.

I think Rhun and Harad can share the same spellbook since they are both Sauron's allies they support can be based on black magic spells and orc-uruk-goblin support.

Offline Rob_13

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #38 am: 20. Apr 2016, 00:52 »
According to some Edain's team members there's still room for 2 more factions in the mod!!! So choose wisely!!! [uglybunti]

Personally I pick Evil Men and Dol Guldur!!!  xD

Online Walküre

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #39 am: 20. Apr 2016, 01:01 »
There already is a thread that widely deals with these matters, in this same section  ;)
You will also find a poll for which you can obviously express your vote.

I will thus merge this topic with that one. Furthermore, just an observation about your poll (that I will delete): options like Dale, Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur don't make sense at all, because they are already implemented very well in the game via the characteristic subfaction system of the Edain Mod 4.0.

MERGED

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #40 am: 3. Okt 2016, 02:20 »
After much consideration I have come up with a new concept for the the Evil Men, as my previous ideas were flawed to a general lack of knowledge I had of the more obscure facets of the Lord of the Rings lore, and hence I have two new ideas.


« Letzte Änderung: 3. Okt 2016, 02:35 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #41 am: 17. Dez 2016, 05:38 »
Just a curious discussion on who you guys think should be the "Ringheroes" for the Evil Men faction. Also, who would be the best character all around (most mighty tank, mass slayer, building destroyer, hero killer character).

For Men of the South I would have to say Dalymyr is the most powerful for the Men of the South as he is a Black Numenor descendent and I think he would make a very interesting ring hero.

As for Rhun, I don't know, does anyone know of any non-canon cool characters that could compete with the other ring heroes?
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #42 am: 17. Dez 2016, 08:53 »
To quote myself:
"They have three (!) ring heroes, the King of Rhun uses the ring to instantly promote all of his buildings to the Imperial Level, crowns himself Emperor and gains an aura that increases the defence of his buildings. In addition he can upgrade a palace of a fortress (Central building) into a Dragon Spire, which allows Rhun to chain a single dragon to their side. This represents the height of their obsession with dragons as their armour are modelled on them. Suladân use the ring to increase the attack and speed of the units of the fraction. The final hero the Lord of Umbar is the most interesting in that when he gains the ring, a unit called a Dark Priest is spawned who can be used to build a Temple of Melkor with the Ring, hence their final ring hero is more of a building. The Temple allows the building of Temple Guard (Elite Infantry that switch between Sword, Pike and Shield) and Temple Knights (Elite Cavalry that switch between Lance and Bow), and can be upgraded to level 5 by sacrificing units to the temple. Once level 5 is reached the Temple can be sacrificed to train a Shade of Morgorth, which is not related to Morgorth in any way but rather is a construct formed of the ring and the lives used sacrificed and is controlled by Umbar. This Shade wields a hammer and uses shadow based abilities, and upon death drops the ring."
This topic should be discussed in this thread however:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32416.30.html
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Online Walküre

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #43 am: 17. Dez 2016, 12:56 »
I will merge this topic with the proper thread that relates to Evil Men.

--- MERGED ---

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #44 am: 17. Dez 2016, 15:50 »
Diewalkure thanks for merging links. I had been looking for this discussion.

Lordoflinks, I loved your ideas man. These were flawless dude! I feel they are canonical, they bring the essence of the books to life, show the essence of the movie, and would offer excellent gameplay. I feel it would be fool-hearty not to implement your ideas into the "Evil Men" faction. They work too superbly. I LOVE IT.

If we do a vote on your idea, you have my staff friend. I'll check out the other link you posted and put my two cents on their. But I literally cannot say enough good things about this idea!
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.