[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Rohan Suggestions

Rohan Late Game Improvement Ideas

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Hamanathnath:
Good to see a member of the team make a post in this thread :)

I can agree that balance between all the Factions can not be perfect.  It is impossible to have perfect balance.  There will always be someone with a slight advantage at every stage of the game. 

But unfortunately, that's not the case here.  Gondor, Dwarves, and Isengard can get to the point where no matter what you do as Rohan, you can not kill them.  There isn't even a chance.  (Assuming the players are of equal skill level, or course)

And it's not like what Gondor, Dwarves, or Isengard is doing to get in this situation is hard.  All they have to do is spam pikes (or veterans in the Dwarves case).  And as soon as they find out what faction you are, that's all they will do.  The reason they do this is because Rohan can't kill upgraded pikes with their weakness.  Peasants don't get anywhere when they attack Isengard pikes, Gondor Tower Guards, and especially Dwarven Veterans.  The only other way to kill them is Horse Archers, and even that can't happen because it only takes a few upgraded archers for your enemy and that strategy also fails. 

I'm not saying that if Cavalry are to charge head first into pikes the Cavalry should win.  But right now they don't do pretty much any damage.  It's not even close.  Pikes completely obliterate the cavalry no matter what you do. 

That is also a problem I have with Lothlorien's palace guard.  The team has said that Palace Guard are supposed to be specialized at killing cavalry, and not as good on anything else as other factions elite pikes.  But what's the difference right now between running cavalry into Isengard Pikes with ShieldBearers, Towerguards, and Palace Guard?  No matter what the cavalry get obliterated.  In fact, the Isengard pikes and Tower Guards have the advantage over the Palace Guards because they take less damage. 

All we r asking is that Rohan Cavalry don't get completely wrecked by Upgraded Pikes and Dwarven Veterans.  A good Rohan player should have a chance against these, but unfortunately right now they don't.

That and Rohan's economy needs some improvements.  It takes forever for Rohan to make money because of the lack of Economic upgrades outside Corrupted Theoden and Eomer, as well has the very high price of what they try to buy.  It take so long for Rohan to get a fully upgraded Army because of this.

And hopefully Spearthrowers get some improvements, but that's an entirely different discussion. 

I hope you understand where we are coming from when we ask for an upgrade like this.  Rohan should at least have a chance.   

Adrigabbro:
I'm not sure I entirely agree on the economic aspect. Let the cavalry/pikes balance issue aside, Eomer does provide a lot of money with his passive ability (well, could provide if you were actually able to kill some enemy troops later on). So far, I always have a lot of money with Rohan from 30 minutes. Before that, Cruel Taxes helps quite well. I'm not saying Rohan get more money than everyone else, but considering how limited your options are in late game, the amount of money I generally earn has always proven to be enough for my needs. If Rohan gets better but more expensive options, my speech might change. However right now I kinda disagree.

As for late game options, I think we should first agree on the expectations:
~> Should Rohan late game army be 100% riders? Then a cavalry buff is welcome (both rohirrims, eastfold riders and mounted archers).
~> Should it be a main force of cavalry supported by some infantry or/and archers ? In that case it might not be necessary to buff riders, but one should take a look at improving peasants late game (and permanent Galadhrims? better spear thrower?)
That's my humble opinion on the matter.

Elite KryPtik:

--- Zitat von: Slawek56703 am 14. Jan 2016, 15:42 ---Well i had diffrent idea i would like to ask what is problem generally Rohan or Rohan Cavalry ?

Second maybe give Rohhirims and eastfold rohhirims formations instead of stances Like:
Anti Pike Formation ; horde changes thier formation buff type : +% to armor vs pike damage -% vs cavalry
Anti Sword Formation ; +% to armor vs swordsman - vs archers
Anti Archer formation ; +% to armor vs archers - vs pike
This are only examples you can develop and give values as you want this is only idea to buff CAVALRY in certain situoations . What more with diffrent type they can be slower / faster receive even maybe some upgrade like shield but this is little unlikly
whats more level 5 can grant boost like royal banner but harder to archive
LG is no matter what harder since rohan need not only defend himself but to attack with strategy Rohhirim Archers + Rohhirim/eastfold one using formations vs certian enemies like i mentioned above could be useful but this is little more work especialy when we ugprade them with armor/shields so edain proably need to make many neu armor I mean (attributes for certain stance no textures ;p)
I aggre with buff Archer Rohhirims vs Pike well this is all sorry for eng and i hope formations no matter what will be useful thanks and good lock with LG
PS : Minor changes to rest of factions would be good too somethink is to op make lees values
PS2 Rohan eco upgrade mentioned pages before is good for rohan to imo

--- Ende Zitat ---
I'm very sorry, but I really can't understand any of that. Please try to clean it up a bit.

Gnomi, thanks for the reply! You'll notice I said in the quote "close to an equal chance" not "an exactly equal chance". I will also say that the Edain mod is far from the balance of BFME1, and right now Rohan can actually do a fairly decent job against Mordor, unlike in bfme1.

As for anything else, Haman hit all the points, and there's no need for me to repeat them. I'll just say Its a real problem that regardless of how good you are, you cannot win late game. Worse, all the enemies have to do is sit in their exceptionally well defended bases and build their armies. So this forces exactly what you say you want to avoid: boring matches where players always win with the same strategy. Either Rohan must ram rush the enemy to finish them, before even getting out of the peasant stage of the game, or they will lose to pike spam. Its been like this ever since Pikes were buffed and trample deceleration was massively increased.

-Mandos-:

--- Zitat von: Elite KryPtik am 13. Jan 2016, 23:58 ---Again, why is Rohan the only faction that should require a diverse mix of units, heavy micromanagement and harassment? You have given no good reasons to convince me so far. No other faction in the game has to deal with this, they can all get away with just building big armies and winning. So why should Rohan have to be the odd man out?

--- Ende Zitat ---

First reason is because it fits the style of the faction  [uglybunti]
Rohan should currently be the most agressive faction out (only rivaled by the misty mountains) and therefore they are the only faction, again together with the misty mountains, that should, in my opinion, require more activity and more skill in the late game than the other factions to keep up or beat them. It shouldnt be impossible, but more difficult than just clicking on your castle and recruiting two or maybe three types of units... (And I can imagine a Rohan army winning against a dwarven army if all the things I mentioned would be possible)

As for why I dislike buffing cavalry: if I need too many pikes to stop cavalry or if they just trample through my units without getting slowed down properly it just feels stupid and useless and ruins the feeling and secondly a passive upgrade of that strength together with the already really strong and "passive" camp spell wouldnt fit the playstyle of Rohan as an active faction that much.

Elite KryPtik:
Well, I don't agree that it fits the "style" as you call it, of the faction. They have a pretty strong army in the lore. This is regardless though, because right now it is impossible to win against Isengard, Dwarves and Gondor, unless you do it in the first 10 minutes. Right now there is precious little reason to even get a stables, your far better off just making all flour mills and spamming peasants like crazy, and then quickly ram spamming the enemy once you have map control. Adding more infantry or buffing infantry is not going to fix this problem, in fact it will make it worse. So if something is not done to make cavalry USEFUL then people are just going to avoid it entirely, unless cavalry is also buffed alongside adding the new infantry. If the team wants Rohan to function as a cavalry faction, that cavalry needs to be stronger. Otherwise Rohan is going to remain as the one-dimensional rushing spam faction that cannot win late game.

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