[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Isengard Suggestions

Isengard's Base

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: The Witch-King of Angmar am  2. Feb 2016, 17:33 ---everyone please focus with me , the balance problem can be fixed (if it even existed)
Edain Team can change the numbers , for example: puting low health points for the walls , or high health points . there is so many ways , i dont see the balance problem is enough reason to disagree this idea .


--- Ende Zitat ---

We are well focused on it too, don't worry  :)

The argument 'the Edain Team could change everything and do anything' is not really something reasonable, in my opinion, nor does it concretely add further elements to your proposal.
As you may know, everything is intertwined, especially if we talk about balance; if just the modification of some values causes consequent changes involving all the other factions, you can imagine that a gameplay switch of the kind you are now suggesting might definitely disrupt and alter completely the general gameplay equilibrium of the Edain Mod.

As I and other people previously wrote, it's not about creativity and how many things the Edain Team can virtually add, it's, on the other hand, taking into consideration that mentioned harmony.
Something that you lack a bit, I would say.

Also, a user wrote something really interesting on ModDB, regarding a lore point related to your proposal, that I would like to expand a bit.
The 'new' Isengard of the War of the Ring, twisted and corrupted, was completely focused on spreading its might and violence across the whole Rohan as fast as it was able to (we can thus understand why the Uruk-hai were precisely designed to be fast and walk both during the day and the night), achieving in very little time the control of the surrounding lands, which had been abruptly and violently occupied.
I think you are concerned mainly and mostly about Orthanc itself, the ancient Númenórean fortress/outpost, while avoiding a bit the 'true' and natural characteristic of Isengard as a whole faction.

There is a reason why Isengard is an evil faction and has a specific gameplay (certainly not totally aimed to defence), a founding theme that goes also back to the very roots of BFME1.

The Witch-King of Angmar:

--- Zitat von: Odysseus am  2. Feb 2016, 18:04 ---Then I'm afraid you have no idea what you are talking about, my friend :). Isengard does not need walls. Bloating the design by adding walls will just make all the other factions suffer. You have Saruman to defend your base, and he should be enough. Isengard needs a weakness, and defending their base is one of the few weaknesses they have. If you play Isengard the way you should, you wouldn't need to defend your base in the first place. Dunlendings and Wulfgar can pressure your opponent greatly, buying you enough time to transition into Uruk-hai and your heroes. You'll be in the offense, almost all the time.

I apologise for sounding so harsh, but it is frustrating for me to see that people who have barely played the mod with pvp balance in mind, are talking about balance. In fact, you could just watch replays and already see that Isengard does not need walls at all.
Isengard already has walls...in the Isengard map with Orthanc. Can we please bring a close to this subject?


--- Ende Zitat ---

if you are going to apologise then dont speak harshly at the first place , i am not always in a good mood to say "its okay", and who said I have barely played the mod ? , i never said Isengard NEEDS walls , i said we can replace the little towers with walls and balance it to be the same effect , while its true Isengard is very good and i have won tons of battles online using isengard , i have noticed that you cant get pikemen in early game if your enemy starts with horses or dwarfs wagons.. you are done .


--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am  2. Feb 2016, 18:23 ---
We are well focused on it too, don't worry  :)

The argument 'the Edain Team could change everything and do anything' is not really something reasonable, in my opinion, nor does it concretely add further elements to your proposal.
As you may know, everything is intertwined, especially if we talk about balance; if just the modification of some values causes consequent changes involving all the other factions, you can imagine that a gameplay switch of the kind you are now suggesting might definitely disrupt and alter completely the general gameplay equilibrium of the Edain Mod.

As I and other people previously wrote, it's not about creativity and how many things the Edain Team can virtually add, it's, on the other hand, taking into consideration that mentioned harmony.
Something that you lack a bit, I would say.

Also, a user wrote something really interesting on ModDB, regarding a lore point related to your proposal, that I would like to expand a bit.
The 'new' Isengard of the War of the Ring, twisted and corrupted, was completely focused on spreading its might and violence across the whole Rohan as fast as it was able to (we can thus understand why the Uruk-hai were precisely designed to be fast and walk both during the day and the night), achieving in very little time the control of the surrounding lands, which had been abruptly and violently occupied.
I think you are concerned mainly and mostly about Orthanc itself, the ancient Númenórean fortress/outpost, while avoiding a bit the 'true' and natural characteristic of Isengard as a whole faction.

There is a reason why Isengard is an evil faction and has a specific gameplay (certainly not totally aimed to defence), a founding theme that goes also back to the very roots of BFME1.

--- Ende Zitat ---

actually only the walls health points needs to be changed but your second point is right , this idea will destroy the natural characteristic of Isengard as a whole faction ,i was focusing on Orthanc and forgot that the walls will not fit in such a dominating Faction as Isengard , thank you for making me remember :) , but I still want it to be more unique there must be a way , i mean this base need some changes like for the love of god why there is dead trees in it , if there is a place in entire Middle-Earth that trees dont exist in  that place must be Isengard's bases , and the color of the the land is very similer to Mordor's one , I think they just need to remove the trees (note: the same dead trees are in Mordor's Base as well ) and change the land's color to the one I used in my video for the new base (the same one in Isengard map), and put the white lines , this way it will looks just beautiful  and more different from Mordor and ofc it will not effect the balance becouse its just a recolor for the ground and removing dead trees ,wait...  i will do a video for it :)

Odysseus:
Well, if that is all it takes, then I will concede some ground :).

Walküre:
I don't think that Odysseus wanted to sound or sounded indeed harsh, and it's obviously true that everyone is entitled to express its own opinions within the boundaries of the forum's rules.

Just, I think he was trying to make you understand that there are also balance aspects that are quite consolidated and shared by many people, who are very interested in balance itself and, in Odysseus' case, are concerned more than other ones about it being Beta or Balance Testers on their own; not to mention the experience regarding Multiplayer games (because this is the 'dimension' which balance primarily refers to).


Witch-king of Angmar, I honestly tell you that I was a bit doubtful whether closing or not this thread, because, trust me, your initial proposal about walls had all the premises that a proposal should have to be locked; and I and other people already and accurately explained you (point to point) what were the prominent problematic aspects.

Nevertheless, since, as I see, you seem to have made up your mind and opted for another type of proposal, I think I could legitimately keep this thread open; and, maybe with some formal modifications regarding the topic, I could widen its core matter in order to be related to possible aesthetic changes for Isengard's castle/camp, shaping the current topic in a more general one and attracting further new contributions and ideas  :)

The Witch-King of Angmar:
i am not here to make enemys , i hope we dont go through this again Odysseus :)

thank you DieWalküre i will Appreciate it .

back to the thread :

i found thats its better get photos instead of a video its better in explaining

first lets see the stuff that (in my opinion) need to change :

1- the trees in the base:







2-the similer color of the grounds in Isengard's and Mordor's bases:





now the idea :

1- no trees:



2- the ground color and white lines from Isengard(Orthanc Map):



3- the upgrades of the base arent around the tower insted there is Construction equipment around the buildings like Waterwheel or ledders etc...)







note: i dont want orthanc tower in the base but i was in a hurry and the same thing goes for the little walls , i prefer the edain's ones

please tell me your opinion .

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