[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

New Spellbook Powers

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Canis carcharothias am 28. Jul 2016, 10:25 ---I'm totally against this. Let's say you play on Erebor map: dwarves of the Iron Hills and Lothlórien versus Misty Mountains. You have dwarves, mirkwood eleves, orcs, wolves and... no eagles! That would be a total shame. It's a well known batlle from the lore, and the only one in the Hobbit, a book in which six subfactions of the game are centered (Goblin Town, Gundabad (meh), Iron Hills, Ered Luin, Laketown and Mirkwood).

--- Ende Zitat ---

I'm not really saying that the Eagles have no connections with Lothlórien/Mirkwood and that, thus, they ought to be removed. The Eagles have bonds with all these three factions (Gondor, Lothlórien and Imladris). But, if we really have to make a choice, my opinion is that the most appropriate solution would be changing the current summoning spell of Lothlórien.

As kmogon rightly pointed out, the Edain Mod is primarily set in the War of the Ring, and the Eagles are already well and smartly implemented in Lothlórien via Radagast; being this an important reference to what we saw in BOTFA, when Radagast himself led them into battle. I personally find this quite enough. Furthermore, I guess that my previous statement was indeed considering the lore very carefully: as I wrote, the Eagles have always been much more acquainted with the Noldor of Imladris (the survivors and descendants of who fought the War of the Jewels) since the very First Age. Therefore, I would honestly say that it's pretty much evident how Manwë's creatures have much more in common with Rivendell than the Sindar of Lothlórien/Mirkwood. And, don't forget that the core essence of Lothlórien/Mirkwood, as a faction, is exactly centred on Lothlórien (and not on Mirkwood).

In addition, I can't really see the logic of maintaining a spell just to fit well in a single map (out of the other multiple ones that we have). It would be quite strange if it were so, wouldn't it?  :)

Canis carcharothias:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 28. Jul 2016, 15:54 ---In addition, I can't really see the logic of maintaining a spell just to fit well in a single map (out of the other multiple ones that we have). It would be quite strange if it were so, wouldn't it?  :)

--- Ende Zitat ---

That would be like removing Grond from the Mordor spellbook or the Army of the Dead from Gondor because they only fit well in the Pelennor fields.

I know it was just one batlle, but with Imladris there were none. If this were an historic RTS I would give the RAAF summon to Britain, not to New Zealand, even though the last two have a lot of relation both politically and geographically. But the Brits and the Aussies fought together at least once.

But that's just my opinion, and opinions are like arses, everyone has one.

Walküre:
I don't think that picking up Grond as an example is really so much relatable to the case we are now debating. You wrote that it would be quite strange if, playing in Erebor (the actual map), Lothlórien couldn't make usage of that spell; as Mordor can with Grond (being this a very pivotal reference to LOTR). But I already pointed out the elements of your statement that I personally consider inconsistent (lore and gameplay speaking).

1. The faction of Lothlórien/Mirkwood is centred mainly on Lothlórien. And the very Lothlórien is mainly set in the War of the Ring. The Battle of the Five Armies belongs to another timeline, Mirkwood is a splendid subfaction but a subfaction nonetheless, and, in the end, a just question: were the Eagles specifically summoned by Mirkwood to aid Thranduil's troops in the war, or, instead, did they come under Radagast's plea to help Elves, Dwarves and Men equally? I regard the latter as the right answer.

2. Just to connect to the previous point, if your concern is maintaining that reference to the Eagles' coming in BOTFA, Radagast already embodies this aspect very properly. He can also summon another eagle to join him (and, why not, nothing denies us the possibility to suggest he summon even more Eagles).

3. Basing on the arguments of point 1, neither Lothlórien nor, especially, Mirkwood can count on a so close and militarily benefitting relationship with the Eagles, during the War of the Ring. The opposite in dealing with Rivendell: these creatures guard the very mountain passes and even consult directly with the Noldor (recreating a similar alliance as the one of the First Age).

Of course, everyone is legitimately entitled to its own opinions. That's why we are discussing them in this thread  :)

DrHouse93:
I also agree that having the same spell with 3 different factions is a bit enough, and I support both the removal of the Eagles Summon from Lothlorien (for the same reasons expressed by DieWalkure) and replacing them with something different (I like the Huorns concept, although that would mean creating entirely new animations for them)

I also think that, if Eagles were to be removed from Lothlorien's spellbook, Radagast should be able to summon two of them. This atleast would be a good compromise, as it wouldn't remove the Eagles entirely from Lothlorien, but still differentiating their spawn because they're tied to Radagast (which will make the player think if he needs him on foot, on his sledge or leading Eagles)


Another power which is quite lame to me is the Mordor Arrow Volley, but in that case the matter is different: I can't think to a better replacement right now

Canis carcharothias:
The thing is that Erebor, par example, has 4 Hobbit-based spells, just because of the Ered Luin heroes. I don't see a problem in a spell for Lórien that makes reference to the battle of the five armies because of Mirkwood.

In my opinion, the Radagast power right now doesn't have enough grandeur to represent that event. With some changes, it could be more than enough, I grant you that.  (and DrHouse, as I can read now)

And I'm not saying that eagles should not have a place in the Imladris faction, I'm just saying that they should be featured in Lórien.

PD: The huorn concept is great for Lórien, and it doesn't need too much animation, just a really dense forest that shakes while doing damage to the units, like in the movie.

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