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Umfrage

What is the last faction you would like to see after the Rhun/Harad faction for the Third Age?

Dorwinion
22 (51.2%)
Arnor
3 (7%)
Forodwaith
2 (4.7%)
Nothing (Land of the Sun)
2 (4.7%)
Something Cool
4 (9.3%)
Hobbits and Unicorns
10 (23.3%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 42

Autor Thema: Dorwinion Faction  (Gelesen 3255 mal)

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #30 am: 30. Dez 2016, 07:11 »
I shall comply a word document of the current ideas that we change as needed for now; but I think we should inquire about creating a fan page on the wiki so it is easy to edit it as needed. I shall inquire.
In terms of rulers of Dorwinion what about a compromise; we set the beginning of the civil war prior to the beginning of the wotr; and have the royal family possess eleven blood. Have the male leader of the cult fraction declare himself a king while keeping the leader of the Court the emperess; that way we have diversity between the fractions rather than two kings. The only problem with Bladorthin is that he dies before the time period we have to use; so if we were to use him as the rebel leader we would need to bend cannon a bit. Other heroes I think we should call others to brainstorm for diversity; such as the Edain team did with the Angamr heroes; whether if it is through a RPG or not is up to you.
In terms of units I feel the units from the academies should be very similar if they are different units to highlight the fact that the two sides are part of the same nation rather than two diffrent nations.
R
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #31 am: 30. Dez 2016, 16:15 »
LordofLinks, what you say is fine. Bladorthin II is not the same as Bladorthin I, he was just a name for the Rebel leader.

As for the ruler of the Court Dorwinions I don't care if it is a Queen or a King. I don't feel we need to set the civil war before the WOTR as I feel that would be un-canonical. During the events of WOTR, Sauron put pressure on all the kingdoms (evidence of this by him offering King Dain II a ring of power). So I feel the need to separate as Sauron presses on the Kingdoms of the West WOULD be implemented at this time.

I do agree that the Court has to be more of an elvish ruling class. Dorwinion IMHO is mostly an elf faction (as evidenced by the books) though it has a melting pot of everything else with it (kinda like Imladris).

The Avari are very numerous, so I am still in favor of your quality proposal, but I don't feel they should be as qualitied up like Imladris, they should be like a Gondor and Lothlorien hybrid.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #32 am: 30. Dez 2016, 21:29 »
Ah; I did not see the II.
I only mean the war starts a year or so before the beginning of the WotR; just so the sides are more established. I do not mean something like 20 years.
It seems likely the Wiki will allow us to comply fraction concepts on it; so I suggest we wait for that go ahead before doing anything more. 
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #33 am: 30. Dez 2016, 21:34 »
Sounds good LordofLinks. To further solidify our position on this faction and maybe convince Melkor as well, here is a link that talks about Dorwinion being mostly an elf kingdom and further solidifies our stance of Dorwinion being a melting pot of cultures.

Perfect area for the Blue wizards!

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2011/10/19/was-dorwinion-an-elf-kingdom/

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/05/02/what-happened-to-the-elves-who-remained-in-the-east/

Read these carefully, it would seem that maybe Numenor did have contact with Rhun...so our discussion of the fortress may not be as far off as we think.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #34 am: 1. Jan 2017, 02:25 »
Also LordofLinks, why couldn't the empress be evil? Out of curiosity, what is your bases for having an empress as the leader of Dorwinion? I'm just curious. Let me know when you have that PDF up so we can all take a look at it.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #35 am: 1. Jan 2017, 07:25 »
Regarding the Empress, the reasoning is that many kingdoms in Middle-Earth have kings; Gondor, Dale, the Dwarfs, Rohan, the Woodland Elves; so by making the natrual ruler of Dorwinion an Empress it increases the feeling that the realm is alien due to the fact its a melting-pot; one because of the title and the other due to the fact the leader is female which is unheard of out of the eleven kingdoms and even rare within them. It also alludes to the trope of eastern fantasy realms, regardless of size or aggression, being ruled by Emperors/Empress. In addition if the female leader was 'evil' she would have to be a queen; as the evil leader is in an alliance with Rhun and as such the Emperor of Rhun (There can be no other title for him) would never tolerate the leader he is helping to gain control of Dorwinion to have equal status to him. I feel it is more lore appropriate to have the female be good; as I fear Rhun would not even ally with a female, as I've always got the feeling they are the sort of people to have harems.

As a side note the reason why the Court Side of Dorwinion is focused on cavalry, and why they get a bloodline upgrade as opposed to horse shields is due to the human element's shared ancestry with the people of Rohan. In fact now I think about it it is also fitting, for the same reason, Rohan and Dorwinion share the onager.

While I'm addressing you, I've asked about the possibility of using a dwarf system for the evil men in the asking thread so hopefully we can get an answer as I fear until we do we cannot move ahead with two very different proposals.

« Letzte Änderung: 1. Jan 2017, 07:41 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #36 am: 1. Jan 2017, 09:07 »
I present the compilation of our ideas so far:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-eovbYCDL9OQ2t5c2VHd25CVWM/view?usp=sharing
Heroes are missing for the most part; as I feel we need to debate more on them, and units are in the same position.
I think I am happy with the buildings we have, and the spells although I think I, at least, would like to replace arrow volley and lone tower. Any ideas?
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #37 am: 1. Jan 2017, 11:59 »
Jeeze LordofLinks, this is professionally done. I have some suggestions for heroes and for some spells under row 2.

I suggest for lone tower, instead of having this power as a 2 power point spell I think it should take 3 power points (but still be in row 2). With that said, here is what I believe can go in that power slot:

For the Cult of Shadow (since there is a lot of water in this region) I can only foresee something just as enigmatic to the dark faction and I would say what is summoned are Mewlips (evil swamp like creatures that Tolkien wrote about, perfect for a summon spell).

For the Vinyard Court I was thinking Lintips (we have no idea what they are and Edain Team could have fun creating this).

Also, I don't know how "Into the East" should be an upgrade for the Blue Wizards, I mean, it is not like they could forge their own items (like Saruman) and it is not like they got upgraded by the Valar (like Gandalf), so if this power was to be implemented to the blue wizards, I would see something individual for both.

For Pallando, perhaps he gains a magical tome that increases the damage of his spells and his recharge times are reduced.

For Alatar, he gains a Longbow and weapons that make him out to be more of a hunter like what he was as Chief of Orome's people.

I think having a unique power for both wizards is cool and needed--but the individual differences based on the power makes it unique to both. I feel this should be added.

All in all very good work here LordofLinks, I am impressed and Edain Team should be too!

As for heroes, I will elaborate on the Vinyard Court as that would be the most canonical with names, Cult of Shadow is going to be a little harder however.

Anyhow, one of the things missing on your list is where to build Ent-Wives, are they just a summon spell that stick around? If so then I suggest a hero to be implemented with them either for building or summoning and that is Fimbrethil

So the heroes I could see for the Vinyard Court that fullfill the roles that you would have are as follows:

Empress (come up with a name, if you want a canonical elf female I can give you that):
Daeron:
Lenwe:
Pallando:
Tauriel:
Fimbrethil:

Any humans we will have to make up but this is a good start with the Court.

For Cult of Shadows:

Alatar
Bladorthin II

(How about you give me a list of all the hero slots you want filled with both the Court and Cult heroes and I will have a list of names ready for you some may or may not be canonical though) I feel if we compile this together it would help a lot.

Give me your vision of the amount hero slots filled what race and job you want them to do and I'll try to find solutions to both of those.

Overall this is the best presentation that I have seen in a long time. Very impressive. Would love to see one with Rhun/Harad as well if you have the time.

Also I just re-read your document (cause I love it that much) and I don't feel the Ent Wives would ally to the Cult of Shadow (having had their vinyards/gardens burned in the Second Age). So what could go for this power and be for the Cult of Shadow?

I was thinking of calling this power (Allied Enigmas) and basically for the Court it summons the Ents as you suggested, and for Cult it summons Gargoyles (as written by JRR in concern of the Mewlips which was fleeting). Let me know if this is too far off from canon but tolkien DID write about these creatures. If you hate the idea let me know. We can always subsitute Evil Huorns for Ent Wives, that might be more appropriate anyways...
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Jan 2017, 12:26 von dkbluewizard »
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #38 am: 1. Jan 2017, 13:45 »
You should be able to edit the document.
Power points I did not specify, I shall leave them to people who know balancing. If you could do that; it would be great. 
Perhaps a spell named "Supernatural Allies" for the Mewlips and the Lintips; if you feel it is a good idea replace arrow volley with it and add the units to the list; as any new units we have (Even temporary spell ones) have to be added there so we can describe them and show an image. Brilliant idea to have an Ent-Wife hero; that is a stroke of genius, she can be summoned along with the other for a short time.
Into the East would turn the Wizards into their forms after the civil war; so Pallando could become "the blessed" (by the Valar) so he could bring peace and  Alatar becomes "the Fallen." My idea is more "saruman of many colours" spell where it is just a passive boost to mirror the other wizards system, not adding any abilities (Not to hate, but I don't think a wizard would wield a bow) and as the spell has a unique effect depending on which sub-fraction you pick it benefits them in different ways. Actually perhaps it could upgrade one thing, a leadership aura; before the upgrade they could have similar auras but afterwards Pallando's becomes more powerful while Alatar's changes to scare enemies.

In terms of heroes I see it this way:
Court (Hero Focused):
Scout (Elven Herald)
2 Paladins
2 Other Heroes (Hoplite? Companion Cavalry? Long-Blade? Vinyard Guard?)
Emperess (I feel no name is needed here; have it symbolise she has give all her being to ruling Dorwinion so she only goes by her title)
Pallando (Mass Slayer to counter cult spam)
Dwarf Lord
Avari Lord
Tauriel
There needs to be a good mix of elven and human; and male and female (Perhaps one paladin is female and one of the 'other' heros)
Cult:
Scout
Warrior
Cult Leader
Bladorthin II
Alatar (Hero Slayer to counter court's fewer but more powerful units)
Miltia leader
Rebel Leader
No elven leaders or female leaders bar one- cult leader is female dark numerorian sorceress from Umbar who is serves Sauron somewhat but true loyalties lie with Umbar and cult of Melkor. Presents herself as an ally to Alatar (Good numerorian) but is secretly shaping the cults to worship Melkor and defy Sauron without him knowing. Invokes parellels to fall of Numeor.

Regarding Ent-Wives; even though they serve the light we must remember the cult side is made up of three groups: peasants who just want to live in peace, nobles who wish to ally with Rhun and Sauron and the Cultists who worship Melkor secretly and in my vision the ones who helped the Ent-Wives especially were the peasants who lived near the forests; as such they would feel a heavy debt to aid the peasants.

Regarding the Mirror Tower, I feel it is very appropriate as the sun in Middle-Earth is the light of the valar and its light is the bane of Sauron's creature; by making use of the sun it alludes to the the relationship between the Valar and creatures of shadow. A possible name for the tower could be "Mirror of the Valar"

Could you please add my link to the first post with a "this is a concept being developed" message. I shall do a document of my concept of the Men of the Shadow as that is the best developed.

Something slightly offtopic but I found this:
http://merp.wikia.com/wiki/Ad%C3%BBnaphel
I am really annoyed she was not a hero for mordor as having a female nazgul would have been really unique, especially considering she was a numeorian, ruled Harad and kicked butt. If by any chance a dwarf system was adopted for the evil men I would be in favour of her leading the "Shadow of the East" spell army for Harad.

EDIT: PLEASE READ BLUEWIZARD!!
Sorry for the capitals but the link above, when you edit it creates a new link. Use this one instead: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xcv5s-WiXL8BIyM3nBzB6ecm9X8x2MGBW2WHqtN5Vmw/edit?usp=sharing;
Anyone can edit it, and it will save and others can edit the edits. Ignore the prior link. I've updated the document with a image of walls.
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Jan 2017, 14:21 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #39 am: 1. Jan 2017, 18:28 »
LordofLinks, before I start editing I want to make sure you and I are both on the same page.

I have a female witch for you that is the Cult Leader, I believe it should be Beruthiel. She had many cats used as spies, she may be like Mouth of Sauron where she doesn't die, she is evil, and it said she went sailing to Umbar, her final fate is unknown.

Now I am a fan of the Blue Wizards (obviously) however, Alatar and Pallando were NOT as powerful as Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf the Grey gets no power boost outside of Gandalf the White and that is because he stayed true to his mission.

Radagast, when he was buildable in 3.81 had no power boost either, I feel this should be the same for the Blue Wizards, that is why if they do get an upgrade, then it should be a passive leadership upgrade for leading troops, or something that gives them more abilities--I do feel Alatar and Gandalf the Grey were equals in power, but what set them apart was that Gandalf was wiser and had Narya (which would make him better). So for those purposes Gandalf the Grey would be more powerful.

Therefore, I do not believe the Blue Wizards should be upgraded like Saruman or Gandalf--they just weren't as good. They are both better than Radagast, but not better than Saruman or Gandalf. I will edit the hero list soon and present stuff on Google drive, but I want to make sure that you agree with my Blue Wizard assessment.

Also, I would like to have another expert look at the Dorwinion faction, he has read Lord of the Rings over 500 times (seriously, he has). I am better with Lost Tales, Notes, Interviews, Wikis, Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and non-canon matieral. However, he is really good with the Silmarillion as well (read that over 300 times). So I would like to present your concept of Dorwinion to him and see what his input would be if that is okay?
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Jan 2017, 18:34 von dkbluewizard »
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Offline Lord Aytugar

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #40 am: 1. Jan 2017, 21:46 »
It is not the time but Cult Leader must say 'Night is dark and full of terrors' :D

Online OakenShield224

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #41 am: 1. Jan 2017, 22:01 »
The current ideas for the Dorwinion faction look amazing!
For the Blue Wizards, the only concrete things we know about them is that they went to the East with Saruman, maybe started magic cults or traditions, were very good friends and that Alatar was chosen by Orome to come to Middle Earth.
Bearing this in mind, they should both be more hunter-focused that the other wizards who are more focused on support (Radagast's heal and Saruman's experience) and Mass Slaying. The wizards can still have some of these characteristics but the idea that they are chosen by Orome the Hunter should be clear with their skills.
It is not the time but Cult Leader must say 'Night is dark and full of terrors' :D
I'm not sure if Morgoth was what they had in mind for the Lord of Light, but if she ends up burning the infidels and heathens, then why not give her these quotes?

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #42 am: 1. Jan 2017, 22:37 »
Beruthiel seems wonderful, one of her abilities could have to do with cats. BlueWizard; you are brilliant with the heroes which is why I want you to come up with ideas for them.
If you do not feel "Into the East" is appropriate feel free to come up with a replacement spell, as I for one I have struggled with that.
Feel free to show it to anyone; just make them aware that as it is a concept for a mod gameplay concessions do have to be made.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline The_Necromancer0

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #43 am: 1. Jan 2017, 23:02 »
For everyone interested, lordflinks's proposal has been accepted, you now have a (empty) page on the wiki for your concept, once it is filled out we will talk some more to see how we will go along for building, hero and unit pages. I'll just post what I posted over there:
Since a majority of WT members agree I shall proceed. I've created a page here for you to post the basic faction information. You can use the other faction pages as a template,if you need any formatting but don't know how to do it just leave me a note, I'll have a look over it later (ex: FN: Make this a section header). I'll copy the basic format and let you do the rest, you just have to go to the page and click edit in the top left corner, once you're done just click submit and we'll talk more about units and hero pages. I'll get a banner and the categories sorted out, don't worry about that.

Page: Link
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8

Offline dkbluewizard

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Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #44 am: 1. Jan 2017, 23:08 »
Thank you, all of you. I am working on the heroes currently and using my friend's email to do Google docs with. He has read the following and feel everything is canonical, so therefore, I will proceed with everything and come up with the heroes names. I will list powers as well.

As for Pallando, he was Alatar's friend but we cannot say with certainty that Pallando was of Orome's people. Pallando could have been from Orome, Namo, or Niennas as all of them are a high possibility.

It may take me awhile but I will come up with powers for all the heroes and once I am done, feel free to change and balance them out as needed. 
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.