[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions

A canonical Gandalf

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DrHouse93:
That's not a bad idea, Haman and Walk^^

Gandalf7000:

--- Zitat von: Hamanathnath am  3. Jan 2017, 14:11 ---As for Cirdan, because Gandalf will have Narya, the name of his first ability will have to be changed, maybe to something like "Gift of the Grey Havens".

--- Ende Zitat ---
I would rather see that called "Gift of the Sea(s)"

dkbluewizard:
LordofLinks: Gandalf the Grey DID NOT have Glamdring during his time with Arnor. All he technically had was a staff. For this reason, Edain Team got rid of calling his sword Glamdring and introduced the "Lightning Sword" as more of a spell for Gandalf. He doesn't get the benefits of wielding Turgon's sword.

So I have a compromise for all of you. I feel Gandalf should have an additional passive power (much like Sauron does at the beginning of every game that tells about how he can't die and what he needs to level). Call it what you want but I feel this could be applied to Gandalf and it would not mess with his stances or powers at all!

On the passive power to the left it would be called Wisest of the Maia (for Arnor) and Gandalf receives the abilities from Narya by clicking on the power to the left or if it is just a passive bonus--it is applied to him.

Now for Gondor and on all Gondor related maps the power is called Gandalf the Grey has a picture of him when he met Bilbo, Gandalf receives the effects of Narya passively/actively but also receives a damage boost of +50% from Glamdring.

I feel this is the best way and satisfies all parties. You wouldn't have to mess with any of Gandalf's powers, they would stay the same, the stances would stay the same, and this would not interfere with any of Gondor or Arnor's power tree. I think this is the best and most suitable way to implement this.

Garlodur:
Thank you for your contributions regarding Glamdring, DieWalküre, you phrased it quite a bit better than me, while you also related Lightning Sword to previous versions of Edain Mod's Gandalf.

It is great to hear you have worked on the proposal yourself as well. Having someone on the inside help you with the technical aspect is certainly necessary to keep focus in terms of game design.


--- Zitat von: Hamanathnath am  3. Jan 2017, 14:11 ---First, let us get into the technical side of this.  Units/Heroes need to have a either a standard stance swap, or a unique stance swap (similar to what Thranduil, Helegwen, Denethor and Malbeth have).  If they don't, this will cause certain bugs.  So, you can't outright replace Gandalf's stance swap with an ability focused on Narya.  So unless one of Gandalf's other abilities are replace, something that I can pretty much guarantee won't ever happen, Gandalf will not have an active or passive ability involving Narya.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I understand now, this is some very interesting knowledge to use in future concept creations  ;)
I wonder then, though, how Sauron´s stance system was created, with the swapping of abilities as well.
Also I hope this knowledge contributes to DieWalküre's proposal of Galadriel's stance system. :)


--- Zitat von: Hamanathnath am  3. Jan 2017, 14:11 ---So, DieWalküre and I worked with what we had and came up with stance swap that will involve Narya.  The name suggested by DieWalküre is Repatriation of Narya to Gandalf.

To keep The Ring of Fire more of an amplifier rather then it having a direct of physically effect, it will affect Gandalf in a more passive way.

On "Aggressive Stance" , the Ring of Fire will be focused more on amplifying Gandalf in an offensive manor, increasing his spell damage by 25%, but halving the frequency of Gandalf activating his Bubble Shield (or outright not allowing it to activate, which ever works better).

On "Defensive Stance", the Ring of Fire will be focused more on amplifying Gandalf in a defensive manor, doubling the frequency of Gandalf activating his Bubble Shield, but reducing his spell damage by 25%.  "Battle Stance" will remain unchanged.

Of course, the numbers can be tweaked to whatever is the most balanced for Gandalf. 

--- Ende Zitat ---

Well, I had a very similar idea in mind at the beginning of this topic. One that I couldn´t get my head around. For this reason I shared the other idea first, not entirely aware of technical issues surrounding such an implementation.

I was thinking to add the increase/reduction of cooldown for abilities to exactly shown how Gandalf channels Narya´s power to other aspects of magic that are not his abilities, which deal direct damage, but rather hidden abilities like the Bubble Shield to be activated more often in the defensive stance, and a sort of resistance leadership in aggressive stance. It became too complicated at some point however, so I thought of a different way of implementing the abilities (see my previous concept).

I have to say that your joint effort covers a good deal of Narya's use in Gandalf's magic while remaining strongly connected to the stance system. Yet, what I find lacking is the supportive aspect of Gandalf´s personality or, arguably, of the Ring of Fire´s powers. I believe that the bold phrases in the following quote should be deepened out more:


--- Zitat ---"Take this ring, Master… for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores until the last ship sails. I will await you."
― Círdan, Appendix B

Taken from TolkienGateway.net

--- Ende Zitat ---

Here it is explicitly mentioned by none other than Tolkien himself that Gandalf should be a character that carries hope, messages, and news to the Free People of Middle Earth. An aspect that I mentioned before is essential to Gandalf's character and which did not go unnoticed by Peter Jackson's and Sir Ian McKellen's portrayal of the wise Grey Wizard.

Therefore, I sought in my earlier concept a way of including this supportive role. Perhaps it wasn't clear in expressing my aim to scale the ability thus because it would have been too strong at low levels with a passive and active function.

Could you think of a way to include a leadership to the stance system (or to Gandalf as a whole), in technical terms?

Walküre:
I'm glad you appreciate the concept, Garlodur. And thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. The proposal shown by Haman is basically a compromise among most of the aspects we discussed so far; it's true that it may lack something, but I assure you that it's a just compromise indeed  ;)


--- Zitat von: Garlodur am  4. Jan 2017, 02:19 ---I understand now, this is some very interesting knowledge to use in future concept creations  ;)
I wonder then, though, how Sauron´s stance system was created, with the swapping of abilities as well.
Also I hope this knowledge contributes to DieWalküre's proposal of Galadriel's stance system. :)

--- Ende Zitat ---

A very wise question. As far as my knowledge contemplates, issues might arise if the stance system is completely replaced by a single ability. Probably (don't absolutely quote me on this though), that's not the case of Sauron or of my proposal concerning Galadriel, since the sixth slot (in these two cases) unlocks a new set of abilities (a new Palantír). But the most significant thing to know is that we nonetheless wanted to stick to the common structure of a stance system, given also the conceptual boundaries I addressed in the first passages of this thread: the fact that Gandalf would never be granted additional abilities, in any way. Therefore, the final outcome we eventually conceived was quite simple, under a conceptual point of view. A three-part feature.

Speaking about technical matters, it would always be great if we managed to receive some indications by the very Edain Team. Due to a quite limited time (these days, especially), it's very unlikely to be given many insights about multiple topics though; or, they probably prefer to sort technical aspects out among themselves, thus sparing us complicated dilemmas to deal with (so that we can freely develop our ideas without many preoccupations). For now, we only have to consider conceptual problematics. This is our task  ;)

Regarding Narya and its hope-infusing properties, I agree with you. As this is fully lore-accurate, there is little to be said. Only, I apologise if it sounds really mysterious and vague, I will tell you this: my concerns about Gandalf's role (something I inferred in my previous posts) have been confirmed. Gandalf won't receive any leadership ability of any sort. Accordingly to his solitary and mass-slayer characterisation, he won't be endowed with anything that could even slightly grant him supporting properties. Although it may seem to contrast with the lore, I perfectly understand the reasons. Henceforth, we could see things in this way: Gandalf's real hope-infusing capability and leading role are his very Magic.

Tomorrow, I will reorder the thread and maybe translate it in German too. Goodnight  :)

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