[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions
Narya
AulëTheSmith:
Very good as always DieWalküre ;)
I have one suggestion to improve further the graphics bringing more uniqueness. I would create, keeping the normal stance equal, other two different palantir for aggressive and defensive stance for Gandalf the white, keeping your concept for Gandalf the Grey. In order to underline the two character more :)
Second suggestion: currently the presence of Narya during game is highlighted by a characteristic white light shining from the hand of Cirdan. I would change the color in red for Narya, and I would add a blue and white light for Vilya and Nenya respectively. The colors are of course related to the stones nestled in the Three.
Garlodur:
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 27. Mai 2017, 23:14 ---1. Narya is the key and main theme of the whole proposal. I thus deem it wise to keep its picture for the normal stance, symbolising that the Ring's general properties are ever-present in the wizard's deeds. This fact is well portrayed by the ensemble that the stance entails: a just proportion between the shield's activation and the prowess of his spells.
2. Gandalf's will of justice makes him commit the ultimate sacrifice: death, in order to vanquish such a mighty enemy. The frame I chose represents him realising the utmost choice that is before him. Yet he's willing to undertake the imperative task, with no fear or second thought. Defeating one of the most terrorising forces of the First Age was certainly worth dying for, albeit the grave departure from Frodo and the Fellowship.
3. Defence is centred on Gandalf's magical shield. So, which other image could ever try to compete with the shield created by the Istar during the battle against Morgoth's fire?
Normal Stance: The Ring of Fire
Gandalf's common statistics. That is, a balanced measure between spell effectiveness and the frequency of the activation of his magical shield.
Aggressive Stance: Will of Justice
Narya inspires Gandalf to fight tyranny and any device of the Evil. His spell damage is amplified by 50% and his attack by 15%. On the other hand, his defence is decreased by 25% and his magical shield will be completely disabled, leaving him vulnerable, in particular, against other heroes and monsters.
Defensive Stance: Imperishable Hope
Narya's flame nourishes the hope of the Istar and his endurance to resist all foul horrors. His defence is increased by 25% and the frequency of the activation of his magical shield will be higher (quite higher), granting him protection against units, monsters and heroes. On the other side, Narya absorbs part of Gandalf's strength to focus on defence and so the damage of his spells is decreased by 50%.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Oh dear, I think I noticed too at some point, but not enough to raise the point. After all, much has been debated in this topic.
Anyhow, although I very much support suitable palantír pictures, I believe the ones you proposed are not ideal. As Aulë already addressed before me, Gandalf has many different forms in the Edain Mod, would it not be weird if only him as The Grey is reflected in his palantír?
I am saying that, if you want the focus to be on Narya and its subtle powers, then make the palantír more about Narya! Now I would do the painting myself if I had the skills of digital painting, but I'll try to explain what I mean.
Normal Stance: leave as it is, this is the iconic picture of Narya after all, meant to be easily recognizable.
Defensive Stance: use the format of the Normal Stance picture but add a whitish/blueish shine to it, as if it were wrapped inside a bubble. Or perhaps draw a white/light-blue oval shape around the whole Ring.
Aggressive Stance: use the format of the Normal Stance picture but emphasise in the centre of the ruby a kind of starry light (no pun intended), indicating the fiery strength radiating through the ring. Alternatively, the background could be 'on fire' by adding radiating horizontal flames.
These would definitely add increased recognition when quickly selected, at least for the player him/herself. I only wonder if the stances need to be identifiable for opponents as well.
Walküre:
I had thought about the implementation of other pictures for Gandalf the White, but the idea doesn't convince me still. That is, leaving Light of the Istari aside, I don't think there could be other suitable alternatives to replace the images I proposed with; Gandalf the White is mainly involved in fighting or leading armies, whereas the confrontation with the Balrog is widely renowned for being the most direct display of power (magic) of the wizard in the entire six-chapter saga. Given the magnitude of the said sequence, I kind of view those scenes/frames as 'universal' for all forms of the Istar, whether he be clothed in grey or white. I would even say that I don't mind them being retained for his corrupted form too. The concepts behind each stance are very clear: the normal influence of Narya, a magical shield and the will to strive for what is good in the world. I personally deem my choice the most immediate of the solutions, comprising a simple yet effective meaning (Narya, fighting harder and magical protection). These basic themes would then be conjugated according to the different circumstances (protection will turn in a barrage of fire, speaking about the corrupted form). I reckon I may have expressed myself in quite obscure or intricate terms, but I hope you will understand the general purpose.
Shining Rings are not an unknown topic throughout the halls of this forum, kind Aulë. We have already suggested something akin, if I recall correctly. But that was quite some time ago, when the international forum was at its beginning. Anyway, the prospect of the Three being visible in a bright fashion doesn't displease me much, as a sort of opposition to the yellow-tone intense light of the One, yet I would go for the easiest path. Narya is a stance and the other two are active abilities (available at level 10); substantially different contexts. Furthermore, don't forget that the Three are invisible to anyone but other Ring-bearers, and that their nature lies in a constant yet silent effect on reality as a whole (space, time and also the psychological/emotional dimension). At the end of the day, it is a quite detached perspective to consider things. Colours themselves might be another problematic to deal with: while diamond-like white could fare well for Galadriel, I guess blue could end up being a bit disturbing in the game and red is usually associated with the Evil in BFME.
Garlodur, I don't agree with you. The reasons are basically identical to the ones I presented in the first paragraph. I also add that the reference to the films is for me a prime motive; something I much prefer, compared to pictures which would eventually consist of the same core concept, edited and with additional effects.
--- Zitat von: Garlodur am 28. Mai 2017, 19:00 ---I am saying that, if you want the focus to be on Narya and its subtle powers, then make the palantír more about Narya!
--- Ende Zitat ---
Narya is already in the main spot. It is the central feature that finds a balance between protection and spell effectiveness; what ties things together. The option one will normally and often use.
AulëTheSmith:
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 28. Mai 2017, 20:37 ---I had thought about the implementation of other pictures for Gandalf the White, but the idea doesn't convince me still. That is, leaving Light of the Istari aside, I don't think there could be other suitable alternatives to replace the images I proposed with; Gandalf the White is mainly involved in fighting or leading armies, whereas the confrontation with the Balrog is widely renowned for being the most direct display of power (magic) of the wizard in the entire six-chapter saga. Given the magnitude of the said sequence, I kind of view those scenes/frames as 'universal' for all forms of the Istar, whether he be clothed in grey or white. I would even say that I don't mind them being retained for his corrupted form too. The concepts behind each stance are very clear: the normal influence of Narya, a magical shield and the will to strive for what is good in the world. I personally deem my choice the most immediate of the solutions, comprising a simple yet effective meaning (Narya, fighting harder and magical protection). These basic themes would then be conjugated according to the different circumstances (protection will turn in a barrage of fire, speaking about the corrupted form). I reckon I may have expressed myself in quite obscure or intricate terms, but I hope you will understand the general purpose.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, as usual the bases of our Moderator are very strong and it is very difficult to find a defect in his concepts xD. Maybe this time is also a matter of personal tastes. I have to say also the issue raised by Garlodur about an easy recognition is very logic and important. About this the two images DieWalkure chosen are quite recognizable (at least the one of bubble shield is very fitting, i like it very much).
As for the differentiation the Grey/the White, may i try to convince you? xD I must admit is very difficult to find display of magic in White form. The Light of the Istari is simply just used as palantir for the ability itself so we cannot count it :(. That's what i propose:
AGGRESSIVE STANCE
: the first is not a display of magic but it is iconic in my opinion. The last fight against evil. Also Narya has an effect on melee attack so is not so out of place (addition: gandaf holding his sword it's a quite recognizable image as aggressive stance i suppose). The second one is a very important moment in the trilogy, and it's a display of the new power gained by the white wizard. But i prefer the first because is more immediate.
DEFENSIVE STANCE
:
probably it is the only scene in which Gandalf the white uses a sort of magic protection (even if i'm not sure he uses the same bubble shield of the Grey). In this moment is clear he became the most powerful of the Istari, replacing Saruman as chieftain. The images are of the same scene in different angles. I like the first, Gandalf is still surrounded by flames. The second maybe it's the most immediate.
Do you like the idea guys?
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 28. Mai 2017, 20:37 ---Shining Rings are not an unknown topic throughout the halls of this forum, kind Aulë. We have already suggested something akin, if I recall correctly. But that was quite some time ago, when the international forum was at its beginning. Anyway, the prospect of the Three being visible in a bright fashion doesn't displease me much, as a sort of opposition to the yellow-tone intense light of the One, yet I would go for the easiest path. Narya is a stance and the other two are active abilities (available at level 10); substantially different contexts. Furthermore, don't forget that the Three are invisible to anyone but other Ring-bearers, and that their nature lies in a constant yet silent effect on reality as a whole (space, time and also the psychological/emotional dimension). At the end of the day, it is a quite detached perspective to consider things. Colours themselves might be another problematic to deal with: while diamond-like white could fare well for Galadriel, I guess blue could end up being a bit disturbing in the game and red is usually associated with the Evil in BFME.
--- Ende Zitat ---
I have still a lot to wander here my dear Diewalkure :D. I understand the issue of the color. And yes, my idea was to underline the presence of the Three in contrast to the One. We can also simply find a common color, white is the most suitable, like the image i posted. But i must say the idea of shining stones (red-ruby, blue-sapphire, white-diamond) intrigues me a lot :D . Do you think is possible to find color tones which are not disturbing-confusing?
Walküre:
You may. You may certainly try me, Aulë of multi-shaped skills xD
I appreciate the attempt, really, but the problem is still haunting us though. We don't have a proper display of those mentioned themes, when it comes to Gandalf the White. Better, we don't dispose of images that could live up to the magical clash against the Balrog, which is undoubtedly the most difficult challenge that the wizard had to undergo; the ultimate sacrifice for justice, lest a loose Balrog resulted in the ruin of the Good. I shall therefore dissent from you, in the most polite and open-minded of the approaches. I can't really find them satisfying, albeit recognising their intrinsic value. For example, do you think that Gandalf being about to be hit by a fireball could genuinely convey the inherent importance of a shield, as the shield summoned against the Balrog does? I would thus regard the proposed pictures (the ones I presented) as the embodiment of Gandalf's essence and truest spirit, regardless of his status or robes.
So, the only reasonable scope for colours in the game would exactly be a white tone, as you indicated. Yet the issue still persists: when is the effect supposed to be activated? Narya is an easy context, but what about the other two ultimate abilities? I also think we might face the backlash of those of the Community who are not particularly fond of this kind of persistent effects on heroes; we have always seen and played with Gandalf without any sort of brightness accompanying his actions. As you see, we're treading not so viable ways.
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