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Autor Thema: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain  (Gelesen 1112 mal)

OakenShield224

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Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« am: 31. Jul 2018, 13:53 »
I've already talked about my ideas for this hero before. However, I'd like to make a new topic so that it can be discussed properly. The following plan is a refinement of my original plan, with a lot of help from Samsara no Mei (SP19XX).

The issue that a lot of people have will Mollok is his vulnerability. He easily charges into enemy armies, gets stuck and surrounded, and then takes massive damage. As a large troll, he can be easily targeted by archers, and he has a much larger weakness towards pikes than 90% of other heroes. This can be solved by a combination of slightly improving his armour (especially against pikes and archers) as well as reducing his trample so he doesn't get stuck in any armies (he doesn't need the trample anyway thanks to his AOE).

However, another large issue with Mollok is how redundant he is. He's currently classed as a mix between Building Destroyer and Mass Slayer. However, Mordor already have Khamul as an effective siege hero, and countless methods of crowd control (Nazgul debuffs, trolls, Gorthaur, the Necromancer's attacks, the Witch King). Samsara and I have therefore decided to rework his abilities.

Level 1: Blood of the Weak - Mollok heals 2% of his maximim health each time he kills a unit or hero (passive). If activated, Mollok consumes a target allied or enemy unit (does not affect heroes), healing himself for 50% of his maximum health. This passive is then disabled for 90 seconds.
This ability immediately gives Mollok some longevity (obviously, the amount of health recovered and cooldown can be changed according to balance). It also has its origins in the book version of Return of the King:
Zitat
“The great troll-chief that smote him [Beregond] down bent over him, reaching out a clutching claw; for these fell creatures would bite the throats of those that they threw down”

Level 3: Rage: Mollok charges toward the target unit, hero or monster, knocking them down, and knocking all other units and heroes around them away. If the target is a troll, Mollok will convince them to permanently serve for Mordor.
This ability is mainly used to disrupt enemy forces, allowing the rest of the Mordor forces to take advantage. Obviously the main drawback is that you may charge into pikes, which would mean that the player would need to use it wisely. The troll conversion can start to introduce his role as a troll leader.

Level 5: King of the Trolls - Mollok utters a shout each 60 seconds, increasing the armour and speed of all trolls near to him by 25%, lasting 15 seconds. If an allied troll dies in the presence of Mollok, he will utter a battle cry, doubling the bonuses for 15 seconds.
While Trolls can be useful in Mordor currently, they could do with some improvement to make them more viable. This would provide that and give Mollok a clear role in the faction.

Level 7: Leap - Mollok leaps to the target location dealing minor damage, creating a shockwave that throws all units and heroes in a medium radius back.
I’ve changed the effect of leap to reduce the Mass Slaying impact that Mollok would have (after all, Mordor already has the Witch King and Sauron). Instead, he is more of an disrupter, disrupting enemy forces and allowing your orcs to press the advantage. By knocking over an enemy army, the ability allows your trolls to move unobstructed for a small time as well, supporting Mollok's role as a troll leader. However, it is a dangerous ability as, once the army recovers, Mollok is left surrounded, and so it would need to be used carefully. This ability also references Mollok’s appearance in the films, where he manages to fight and knock over Aragorn.

Level 10: Assault of the Trolls - Mollok temporarily summons three Attack Trolls from the Trollshaws, each wielding a different weapon. Trolls in the area of the summon are rallied, healing for a small amount.
This ability is staying mainly because it reinforces Mollok’s role as a troll leader. By having each troll have one weapon, it can be more versatile (but won’t be immediately devastating when combined with Troll Chieftain’s bonus as you won’t be able to immediately destroy massive armies). It also can be used to slightly support currently existing trolls. The heal will not affect Mollok as he already has a way to heal himself.

Overall, Samsara and I have reworked Mollok into a troll leader with some tank aspects. Like most tanks, he is also able to disrupt enemy forces. Neither of these roles are present in Mordor currently, allowing Mollok to fill a hole in the faction. We hope that this will make him more viable, and look forward to hearing your feedback.

Julio229

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #1 am: 31. Jul 2018, 14:14 »
I really like this! It overall would make Mollok more worthy of using, as his current role is already overlapping with other heroes on Mordor. This would give him capabilities that the faction currently misses, and I'd say he would actually be worth his price thanks to this, alongside with the removal of trample that ends up making him so frail. Both that and his healing capabilities would make him much more durable than he currently is, thus becoming fitting of the powerful troll he's supposed to be.

Great work!


FG15

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #2 am: 31. Jul 2018, 15:45 »
Zitat
Mollok heals 2% of his maximim health each time he kills a unit or hero (passive).
Interacting with fallen enemies isn't possible in such a way.

OakenShield224

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #3 am: 1. Aug 2018, 13:50 »
Thanks for the support Julio!

An alternative that Samsara and I discussed would be him gaining health every time he attacks. To compensate, the health gained per hit can be reduced to 1% of his maximum health if 2% is too overpowered.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #4 am: 11. Feb 2019, 04:53 »
I think that this thread and that thread https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32656.0.html can be merged into one Mollock's thread.

I certainly agree that only named Mordor's troll is quite strange. He can do mess on the battlefield, which is cool, but he is also annoyingly vulnerable.

Truth is, that Mordor doesn't need too many mass slayers, especially when faction completely lacks tank hero. Strong troll who individually fought with the king of the men Aragorn, and resisted, is definitely great candidate for this job. Oak's idea is fine, although I would rather to see more tankish abilities with unit disruptor aspect (that is something what I'm proposing for Grimbeorn, because both are strong and tall) and unit-troll supporter aspect represented maximally in one ability.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Feb 2019, 05:02 von Tiberius Ogden »

Walküre

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #5 am: 11. Feb 2019, 14:13 »
It depends on Oak's intentions: is this topic still supposed to showcase a finalised concept? If you all deem it wiser to continue the general discussion around the hero and his own current problematics, I will certainly merge the two threads in a single fold. Let me know.

Besides, I'm glad we're trying to find ideas aimed at the overhauling of seemingly-consolidated heroes, whose potential is awfully impaired by various issues. The community has been very much vocal in regards to Mordor's Troll Chieftain, for a long time. It was about time we came up with some possible solutions :)

OakenShield224

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #6 am: 11. Feb 2019, 14:47 »
To be honest, I don’t really see as much of a point to the tank heroes, at least compared to other roles like scout, unit support, hero killer, hero support, mass slayer etc. It works for some heroes like Boromir, Hama and Karsh, but a lot of the time it just leads to heroes being forced into the role (like Glorfindel). Plus, they just don’t really seem as useful as other roles and, when those heroes are useful, it is mainly for other reasons (Thranduil’s leadership and shield wall, Hama’s healing, Boromir’s horn and leadership etc.). I think Karsh is the only one of them who is a mostly “pure” tank and is actually effective at it.

Would you believe me if I said that about ¾ of the development time for this Mollok proposal didn’t actually consider the roles at all? I just thought of abilities based on what worked from him in 4.4.1, and other abilities that fitted with a big troll that was able to take down Aragorn and potentially led the other trolls. It was only afterwards that I made sure that he didn’t contradict the other heroes in Mordor like Witch King and then tried to balance it out. Personally though, I’d rather he focused on the troll leader and disruption mechanics instead of the tank mechanics.

Of course, if you do have ideas that might work for Mollok, I’ll try and include them in someway if others like them as well.

I think most people do at this point appreciate the main issues with Mollok (his vulnerability and his redundancy). This thread was more for a finalised idea, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be developed further. I do agree on it being time that he gets improved and I definitely believe that he deserves it a lot more than a lot of other heroes.

SP19XX

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #7 am: 11. Feb 2019, 17:53 »
My only true concern with giving Mollok a disruption basis is that it is once again redundant in Mordor as the Nazgul and Mouth of Sauron fill these roles as they stand, Mordor is a semi complicated mess when it comes to their heroes, their roles cross far too often but Mordor relies on it due to it's below average unit roster, while Mollok is far too vulnerable, without impacting the game anywhere near as much as the other heroes.

I think in this instance the best possible outcome for Mollok would be for him to become a supporting unit for trolls without all of their usual vulnerabilities with a blend of tenacity against heroes (as the unveiled Witch King is the only direct source of this at present, and requires a minimum of 5800 resources before he is able to hit the field, making Mollok his early game counterpart but with a late game benefit.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #8 am: 28. Feb 2019, 01:12 »
Troll supporter, but with tank and disruptor aspects, is quite logical, because Gothmog is pure orc supporter and Mollok should correspond with him. Except scouts, who are excluded from Sauron system, Mollok and Gothmog are only two non nazgul/mouth heroes who are linked to Sauron. Gothmog because is his army leader ... but why Mollok? Maybe because he should be also Sauron's army leader, he fought with the king of men after all, so who knows ... maybe he was in charge at the Black gate, like Gothmog during siege of Minas Tirith.

So from gameplay perspective - one is orc leader, second troll leader.

OakenShield224

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #9 am: 28. Feb 2019, 12:25 »
Troll Supporter and disruptor/minor tank fits with the abilities I've given him. I've tried to keep him away from the aspects that he currently has simply because they are redundant in Mordor as it is.

With Gothmog and Mollok, I assume they represent an extension of Sauron's growing control over his military forces. One represents his grip on the orcs and the other represents his grip on the trolls.

Would I be able to list you as for the proposal Tiberius or do you have any doubts on it?

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Mollok - The Troll Chieftain
« Antwort #10 am: 2. Mär 2019, 17:33 »
That's what I was trying to say. xD
Yes, there is some logic behind proposal, it'll also little help to his general vulnerability, which is awful.