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Autor Thema: New Ring Heroes and canonical faction leaders  (Gelesen 275 mal)

dkbluewizard2

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New Ring Heroes and canonical faction leaders
« am: 22. Mai 2020, 00:37 »
I have given some thought to this and would like to see the general consensus among the community.

Boromir, outside/next to Aragorn is arguably the strongest man in the WOTR. In edain mod, he dies after holding the ring for a long period (a reference to the ring destroying him).

This is slightly referenced with Theoden in his glorious form when he takes the ring and uses its power he becomes weaker.

But what about another Ring Hero that fits Rohan more?

So my suggestion is to move Gandalf to Rohan for the following reasons: Shadowfax was the steed of Gandalf the grey and white, Gandalf released Theoden to become Glorious Theoden, and Rohan needs someone who can't become destroyed by using the ring.

However, this would leave a void in Gondor, who would fill the vacuum? My suggestion is this: Aragorn should be the ring hero for Gondor since he is the Returned King, and he canonically would be the faction's main leader.

Ring Hero Function: Like the movies and his canonical self, he would do what's right for the world. He is Isildur's heir not Isildur himself. Thus, when Aragorn takes the ring, he strikes an oath to destroy the ring and calls for help (this is akin to what his ancestor did with the Men of the White Mountains).

So if going by a pure canonical interpretation, we could have the King of the Dead (KOTD) be summoned and fulfill his oath carrying the ring.

But KOTD is already implemented in the summon spell. Isildur's ability to create an oath and curse people runs in his line and would be applicable to Aragorn as well.

As stated, Aragorn calls for help in the form of an oath. Aragorn summons the ghostly version of Celebrimbor with the One Ring, who would be voiced and do things as his Shadow of Mordor/War counterpart.

This would be a slight stretch to the canon--maybe, but Aragorn can do this and it would give another good point for resisting the ring, and Boromir would still remain as a ring hero as well.

But what about Arnor? Aragorn's ancestor is both Araphant, Arvedui, and Aranarth and Arvedui is already a ring hero. So I would suggest using Araphant as doing the same as Aragorn since he is of the same line, is older (albeit wiser) and he carries the same lineage. So he would summon Celebrimbor (or KOTD) to carry the ring.

But then, what happens to Gondor/Arnor's mass slayer?

Several ideas came to mind: Since Gandalf was a "Grey Wanderer" I don't see why we can't have someone similar who helped shelter Arvedui and helped Aragorn's line gain back the ring of barahir--I am talking about the Lossoth Chief, who could use cold winds and ice-based attacks as well as predict a mighty storm to attack his foes.

If the idea of the Lossoth Chief is frowned upon, then I suggest making Malbeth/Denethor the mass slayers, since Malbeth was considered a seer/mage anyways, and Denethor in the books was said to have an appearance to a wizard.

Another option would be to incorporate Talion and another Arnorian human fused with Celebrimbor, but I find that too non-canonical. But it would be a suggestion.

The last option would be to use a fiefdom hero (Duinhir is an example) as a mass slayer and let him and a made-up Arnorian hero be the mass slayers, but personally speaking, I feel the Lossoth Chief could fulfill this role both times since his name is just a title.

Power Tree for Rohan:
Gandalf the White would replace the “Three Hunters” spell with Rohan, and Gandalf would be a permanent hero recruit from the Rohan citadel. Since we get Aragorn twice (3 times as of now) in Gondor and Imladris, I feel this would be more appropriate.

The Edain Team could still continue with implementing Narya, the Firework cart (since Rohan carries fire carts anyways), and they wouldn’t have to worry about Gandalf carrying only a staff when he is with Arnor as he would totally be with Rohan from this point and would be a joint faction leader (Shadowfax leads the Mereas, Gandalf led Erkenbrand's forces, led the fellowship remains to Edoras, and freed Theoden). The power tree of Rohan speaks to the deeds of Gandalf.

Power Tree for Gondor:
Replace Gandalf the White with the Crown of the Reunited Kingdom, Ring of Barahir, or Elessar. But since the Elessar is with Arwen, and ET has combined Arnor with Gondor, then I would suggest the Ring of Barahir and have it confer a bonus upon Aragorn in Gondor.

Since the Ring was of utmost importance (being Finrod’s ring) and was left to the Lossoth Chief and then given back later in the Third Age to Aragorn’s line, I suggest that this ring be used in place for Gandalf the White’s power. This would also connect both factions (Arnor/Gondor) that much more.

But let me know all your thoughts do you like this idea? The lines of Isildur seem to make much more sense to be Ring Heroes and faction leaders for Arnor/Gondor, and I feel Rohan gaining Gandalf would improve his role and help out Rohan. I feel this just makes a lot of canonical sense.

And if the Celebrimbor part bothers you from a canonical perspective, just know that Isildur could summon ghosts through oaths and curses—I can’t see why Araphant/Aragorn couldn’t do the same.

If I was doing this, I would suggest moving Gandalf to Rohan, replace Gondor/Arnor’s mass slayer with the Lossoth Chief mass slayer (it would incorporate some lossoth as well), and have Aragorn/Araphant resist the One Ring and strike an oath where help in the form of Celebrimbor’s ghost arrives and carries the ring (like Shadow of Mordor/War).

This is dkbluewizard2 and know that all your opinions are valued. Have a blessed and safe day!

OakenShield224

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Re: New Ring Heroes and canonical faction leaders
« Antwort #1 am: 22. Mai 2020, 13:46 »
I'd just want to respond to a couple of your points. Firstly, I don't think Aragorn would fit as the Ring Hero in the way you described it. He may have wanted what was best for the world, but when given the opportunity to have the Ring, he rejected it.

The main thing however is the idea of Aragorn summoning Celebrimbor which really wouldn't suit the mod. The whole Shadow of... series is non-canon and I heavily doubt that the Team would want anything from it in the mod. Isildur could "create" ghosts but only through a curse that stated that the Men of the White Mountains would be unable to leave Arda until they had fulfilled their oath (an oath sworn on the Stone of Erech and on Eru himself). It wasn't a case of him summoning them to his side. And even later on, Aragorn had to persuade them to help him. Aragorn being able to summon Celebrimbor would be a completely out of place idea, considering the fact that he was killed without ever claiming the One Ring or being locked as a spirit or whatever else happened in that game.

The one thing that I would be interested in though is more connection to the Lossoth. They're a pretty interesting and unexplored race in Middle-earth and seeing them incorporated in Arnor in some way could open up new possibilities.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: New Ring Heroes and canonical faction leaders
« Antwort #2 am: 22. Mai 2020, 17:09 »
I have removed the poll. It does not incentivize communication, instead of simply clicking a button people should be discussing why they like that idea and what they don't like about it (if there is anything they don't like about it)
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dkbluewizard2

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Re: New Ring Heroes and canonical faction leaders
« Antwort #3 am: 22. Mai 2020, 17:49 »
I'd just want to respond to a couple of your points. Firstly, I don't think Aragorn would fit as the Ring Hero in the way you described it. He may have wanted what was best for the world, but when given the opportunity to have the Ring, he rejected it.

The main thing however is the idea of Aragorn summoning Celebrimbor which really wouldn't suit the mod. The whole Shadow of... series is non-canon and I heavily doubt that the Team would want anything from it in the mod. Isildur could "create" ghosts but only through a curse that stated that the Men of the White Mountains would be unable to leave Arda until they had fulfilled their oath (an oath sworn on the Stone of Erech and on Eru himself). It wasn't a case of him summoning them to his side. And even later on, Aragorn had to persuade them to help him. Aragorn being able to summon Celebrimbor would be a completely out of place idea, considering the fact that he was killed without ever claiming the One Ring or being locked as a spirit or whatever else happened in that game.

The one thing that I would be interested in though is more connection to the Lossoth. They're a pretty interesting and unexplored race in Middle-earth and seeing them incorporated in Arnor in some way could open up new possibilities.

I agree Oakenshield that summoning Celebrimbor is out of place, which is why I suggested the King of the Dead in his place, but I didn't know if the community wanted to see something related to Shadow of Mordor/War.

I understand the Oath to Eru and all that, this is why I suggested when Aragorn gets the ring, he rejects it and swears an oath to Eru destroying it, summoning the KOTD to carry the ring and fulfill his oath.

As it stands, I just don't feel that Gandalf leads the faction like other ring heroes (Galadriel, Sauron, Saruman, etc.) The team is working on Elrond, but I just don't feel Gandalf should canonically be the leader of Gondor (I mean he wasn't, all he did was take over the defense of the city once. He did more for Rohan and Shadowfax is from there), and I don't understand why Aragorn isn't the canonical leader and ring hero of Gondor. I feel this concept should be looked at more if we are making things "more canonical" which I admit Celebrimbor's ghost isn't, but then, I already stated that.