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Lothlórien Balance Discussion

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Adrigabbro:
I think you are taking the problem in the wrong way. You want the command points to come with all the buildings in the Citadel because, quote, "Putting double resources on your mallorn trees is the only real way to stay competitive right now" and having then to build a couple Border Guardhouses makes you unable to get discounts.

Well, the easiest and best solution, in my opinion, is simply to increase the amount of resourcs earned in the Citadel so that you can upgrade mallorn trees with command points.

Elite KryPtik:
Could you please explain to me, Odysseus, where I twisted your words?

Adriggabro, putting double resources on Mallorn Trees IS the only real way to stay competitive right now, but that is not the main reason that I want this change, every other faction puts double resources on outer farms as well. The main reason I want this change is so that the player isn't forced to get the Border Guardhouse. Your idea could work, although I think it may be a bit unimaginative(no offense, just my opinion), and it also still forces the player to use Mallorn Trees for command points. If the command points upgrade was on the citadel, costing a bit more than the current ones in the border guardhouses, like 600 per upgrade and giving more command points, maybe like 250 per upgrade, then it would be very much more balanced I believe.

Now if this change were implemented, we would need a new upgrade for the Border Guardhouse as well, so that it would stay competitive with the other buildings to make players want to get it. With this method the player could get 1000 command points from his citadel, which is still less on the whole than other factions can get inside their castle, and could then mix and match Mallorn Trees to get resources and pantry. Finally it would solve the main issue of being forced to get border guardhouses, and allow the player to get different discounts from different buildings.

Odysseus:

--- Zitat ---This really isn't fair, even with the argument that my micro was apparently so horrible, and I should have gotten master blades first.
--- Ende Zitat ---
I didn't say it was horrible. I never would, since I don't know you and you probably don't know me haha. Anyway, I'm not sure what tweaks would be in order really. I doubt the CP thing will solve the cavalry issue. Buffing the resources also seems to be somewhat more logical to me, but that's just me.

I did some checking and perhaps there would be a way to obtain a level 2 forge faster. For instance, reduce the cost of the 2000 upgrade that levels all your structures to level 3 to 1500. That way, there would be quicker access to Master Blades. Another thing could be to split that upgrade into a 750-1000 cost to instantly upgrade your structures to level 2 and then a seperate one for level 3 at the the same cost or slightly more.

Finally, what would you suggest then instead of the CP? If you could place some more effort into your alternative, you might just sway my opinion :P.

Elite KryPtik:
I was just being sarcastic, I know you never said my micro was horrible, was meant to be funny. Also I already suggested an alternative upgrade for the Border Guardhouse, if you look back through my posts, which I believe was a boost in experience gained from combat.

Lord of Mordor:
Lorien's castle income isn't actually that low. Yes, you have only five build plots, but all your buildings generate resources. Dwarves and Rohan have seven plots, but if we assume that they build one barracks and one forge, they don't have more space for resource buildings than Lorien has. With smaller camps it's four for Lorien and six for everyone else, but again the other factions can't spend all their plots on resource buildings.

A Lorien castle at rank three with one fully upgraded Borderguard house produces 200 resources and grants 630 command points. A Dwarven castle with five mines, three of them upgraded for resource production and two for command points, produces 192 resources and grants 870 command points. In terms of resources Lorien is actually very slightly ahead, but I agree it's a discrepancy in command points. However, I don't see a fundamental issue with the border guard house granting command points. It's your basic barracks and you should have at least one anyway, and it's more vulnerable to attack than the Citadel - same as the command point structures for all other factions, which can also be destroyed. So I think the simplest step would be to just increase the command points for each border guard house by 50% (from 480 altogether to 720). That way, you get a more solid CP foundation from one guardhouse and can then choose whether you want a second in your base or upgrade one or two mallorn trees. In terms of overall production, you won't lag behind other factions in either case because they lower their production with each resource structure they dedicate to command points.

The pikeman issue might hint at a more fundamental problem though. Lorien's pikemen are not actually weaker than, say, Dwarven pikes, and Dwarves don't even have elite pikes like the palace Guard. Do other factions struggle to counter cavalry with their pikes as well? (leaving aside Gondor, who have the best pikes in the game) If not, what do you think is the difference between them and Lorien when the Lorien pikes themselves are roughly the same strength? It's important to discern whether this is a Lorien issue or a more general problem.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind though: You are in fact expected to keep your pikemen strength up with your enemy's cavalry power. If he comes at you with heavily armored elite knights or even Knights of Dol Amroth, then basic Lorien pikes might well not be enough. If they were, what would the incentive be to ever build elite pikemen or upgrade them? Lorien's master blades especially are twice as powerful as other faction's forged blades and grant a huge boost in damage, while the Palace Guard can use their formation to stop cavalry more efficiently. You should need to make use of these to stop the strongest cavalry armies. Of course if you do use them and cavalry still wins, we have a problem.

Beornings really shouldn't be Lorien's counter to cavalry by the way, simply because they shouldn't counter everything. They're already good against structures, heroes, swordsmen, pikemen (in human form) and even archers if they get to them.

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