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Lothlórien Balance Discussion

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Hamanathnath:
Again, I do not think that Silverthorne Arrows should be stronger because of 1 match where they were ineffective against Tower Guards.  I do agree that Kry could have made some better choices, namely getting ents before I got Fire Stones for my Trebuchets.  Im also curious on how well the Elk Riders would have done against the Tower Guards.  Ill try to test that out if I get the chance.   

There were some choices that he had to make due to the circumstances, such as he needed to make palace guards to protect his army incase my Rohan ally come with his cavalry army. 

Also, I don't think Beornings would have helped as much as you think.  While I agree that Beornings would do a lot to the Tower Guards, remember that Boromir is part of that army.  And Boromir can knock down Beornings, which would limit their use unless there were a very large amount of them.

I think there needs to be further testing, in a 1v1 situation if possible, before I can say that something needs to be changed.  Ill try to look into it whenever I can. 

Also, I think Tears is good if you have the spell that stuns units (Can't remember its name), but only if you have the stun spell.  It has a long delay before the spell starts doing damage, giving your enemy time to run away, and it has knockback, which is good in theory, but it also means that the units that are knocked back have a chance of dodging the rest of the spell.  With the stun spell however, you are pretty much guarenteed to hit, and it does more damage because the units aren't flying around.  Also, maybe ive been lucky with this, but the stun spell usually end right before the last Tear, knocking them back at the perfect time.  Maybe it does need more damage, but I don't want it to become over powered becuase of the Stun Spell, because as far as I know, there is no way to become immune to the Stun Spell.  I do recommend that Tear's delay at the start should be shortened, because It should not have to rely on another spell to be good.

Elite KryPtik:
In terms of using melee Galadhrim, if I recall correctly the very first battle I had where I used several battalions of them, I had them on melee mode, and they got slaughtered. They don't have the armor to hold up in prolonged melee. That's why I switched to using Palace Guards to hold the enemy in melee while the Galadhrim dealt damage with their bow.

In terms of the Ents, I agree they could perhaps have been useful. However, the route of getting heroes and Silverthorns is much more dependable in more situations, Ents are very specialized(and expensive). I had no way of knowing he was going to start getting trebuchets, and once they were out it was pointless to get ents in my view. Also, ents don't do all that much damage to upgraded Tower Guards in formation with their rock throw, and its suicide to send them in melee, so they wouldn't have helped all that much with that situation either. The only way they would have been useful would have been if I spammed out like 10 of them, which I did not have the economy to do.

I completely disagree about Beornings, upgraded tower guards wreck them, and Boromir also has his knockback. In regards to the Caras Galadhon Guardians, their activation ability actually doesn't work at all. I think their damage is a little low, but their health and armor are excellent to make up for that, so I'm fine with them as they are, except that their ability needs to be fixed. Also, most heroic battalions have 2 abilities, so maybe they could have a secondary ability unlocked at level 7, which is armor piercing. That would be pretty awesome.

Overall though, are we really not going to discuss how he held off a bigger army, which had many more heroes than his, with a smaller army and less money? Something is simply not right there, which goes back to my opinion that something isn't quite right about Lothlorien's economy. Even with the majority of map control in our teams favor, they were able to hold me back. Now some of this can be attributed to my teammate, who is rather new to the game, but once we got to late game where it was just me vs him, he was still holding me off by himself. When your army is as big as mine was and has that many heroes, I would expect it to at least be able to defeat the enemy army efficiently, even if they cannot destroy the base afterwards.

Odysseus:
I finally watched the replays myself and I agree with what Die bucklige Verwandschaft said. I think this was a classic example of tunnel vision, but probably most because of Rohan's cavalry.
 Your opponent was ''spamming'' Tower Guards, which still constitute of the Spearmen class and are still countered by any form of swords. I don't think I saw even a single Mirkwood Swordsmen or Galadhrim with swords in your roster 30-40+ minutes well into the game (and after I stopped watching) after you lost all your Lorien Swordsmen. I'm not really sure what you were trying to accomplish with those frontal assaults with Pikes...Were you trying to ''out-armour'' Gondor with Lothlorien? Because that is what it looked like to me, and that is the kind of game Gondor will almost always win against Lothlorien.
Tower Guards, are defensive units supposed to suck up damage, and that is their main strength. The spam of a specific unit can only endure if the correct counter is not employed. You could also, as has been pointed out before me, had followed the example of your adversary and purchased a couple of Ents and have them fire away at the enemy from behind your lines, just like he did with the Trebuchets.
Frankly, I don't think those Silverthorns were underperforming at all. Yes they are expensive, but they are not supposed to counter Heavy Armour, Wall Formation Tower Guards, but function like the support to make the job of the upgraded swordsmen, that were missing in-game, easier. I think that already a couple of upgraded Mirkwood swordsmen, which were quite cheap with your in-game composition would have done wonders, and Galadhrim with Master Blades perhaps even better :)

However, a couple of times you were unfortunately getting doubled. In such a situation balance is a very difficult thing to assess.

Finally, I agree about Grimbeorn. The issue of the Eagles/Flying Units against siege (or buildings) also still remains. Perhaps some kind of anti-cavalry formation would be worthy of testing for the Palace Guards indeed.

These were just a couple of thoughts I had as an observer, so as always, it's easy to say things in hindsight and in-game it often turns out differently, but I hope they might aid you in improving your game with Lothlorien even further!

Kind regards.

Elite KryPtik:
I never thought about using Mirkwood Swordsmen, I'll have to try them in the future, that formation of theirs may have helped a lot. I still completely disagree about Ents, test it yourself and see how little damage they do, with rock throw, to Tower Guards with heavy armor in formation. However I still believe my point is valid, I had a much bigger army with more heroes, and he was still beating me back with around 800 command points.

Odysseus:
They could perhaps use some tweaking in their ranged damage against infantry. Maybe the Lord of Gifts can elaborate on this with some statistics? :P

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