Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 05:19

Titel: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 05:19
So we with Tienity and Tiberius got an idea about a new and uniqe building on Ered Luins Outpost to make them more uniqe and give each Dwarven Realm it is own "style"! :)
So this is what we came up with! Which can ahve this look
or another that the Team creates and can be called "Ered Luin Assembly Hall"!It will represent the meeting Tohrin spoke off in AuJ when he got Bilbo and his Dwarves where he said that Dwarves from all 7 Kingdoms gathered and Dain including but refused to help!
So basicly in this Building you will be able to recruit Lord Dain and 3 Battalions of Iron Hills Slayers and 2-3 Battalions from Ered Mithrin(Grey Mountains) and Orocarny!Thus representing the Meeting that Thorin called and a scenario in which they decided to help! :)
The Grey Mountains Soldiers can look like this http://www.jasonkimportfolio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/dwarf_crossbowman-1024x704.jpg
Orocarni Soldiers like this http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/11/10679/khazaddum_1269355789.jpg but with some different color theme
And this will make each Kingdom with its own unique Outpost escept the normal one!
Ered Luin - Assembly Hall
Erebor-Dale
Iron Hills-Lake-Town
So what do you guys think about this is it fiting and do you like it at all!? :) Greetings to all! :)
Here are the newest additions for perfecting the idea from Tienity! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: H4lbarad am 21. Jul 2015, 11:11
So we won't be able to have Bard anymore ? :/

... It's a good idea but we could keep the possibility to make Laketown. So there would be 3 possibilities for outposts.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 11:14
Well yes!But it will ruin the Balance since 1 Dwarven Kingdom will have access to 3 Outpost options while the other 2 will ahve only 2 options so it must be only "Assembly Hall"!You will have Bard and Lake-Town in Iron Hills! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 21. Jul 2015, 12:30
i like the idea about Ered Luin - Assembly Hall
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Jul 2015, 13:51
This is one the best ideas I read in some time. Really like it. :)
Orocarni Soldiers and Grey Mountains Soldiers, really nice! :)

Few advices:Btw, all of Dwarven faction should have 1 unique Outpost, this make them balanced.
Guys, more creative ideas like this one is what this mod needs! 8-)



Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 21. Jul 2015, 15:21
agree
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Jul 2015, 15:58
Isn't it logical that the Blue Mountains have the Lake Town outpost, since, among the three factions, they are the most Hobbit-ish one, and Thorin and his Company personally met Bard, entered Lake Town and were given the approval for their mission by the Governor?

I would rather think of another outpost for the Iron Hills  :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 21. Jul 2015, 16:32
you have a point man yes it should be for the iron hills
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Jul 2015, 16:48
And they are also the ones who caused its destruction.

The Blue Mountains are deeply and tightly connected to Lake Town as a faction, they definitely should not be divided.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 17:12
I see your point and doesnt mind if it is used for Iron Hills.but still I doubt that the team will approve that since the meeting was said to take palace in the Blue mountains!:(
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 21. Jul 2015, 17:47
Isn't it logical that the Blue Mountains have the Lake Town outpost, since, among the three factions, they are the most Hobbit-ish one, and Thorin and his Company personally met Bard, entered Lake Town and were given the approval for their mission by the Governor?

I would rather think of another outpost for the Iron Hills  :)

Maybe you're right. I think that also dwarves from Orocarni and Grey Mountains can be suitable for Iron Hills. 8-)

I see your point and doesnt mind if it is used for Iron Hills.but still I doubt that the team will approve that since the meeting was said to take palace in the Blue mountains!:(
We don't know much about the Iron Hills and his allies. Maybe Dain had alliance with dwarves from Orocarni and Grey Mountains. Actually they are not too far apart. 8-)

In addition, Iron Hills has own normal hero with a bow. Drar can be main archer in Iron Hills subfaction. Maybe Grimir (from hero submod) with some old dwarven model can be new hero and ambassador from Orocarni or Grey Mountains. :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 21. Jul 2015, 18:09
So we with Tienity and Tiberius
Honestly - I did not participate on it. xD
But it definitely will be nice thread.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 19:07
Well then only I and Tienity thought about it!! :@ XD
Now joke aside!I thought about that it should nr for Iron Hills but as I said I was afraid thar the Team won't agree cuz it.was mentioned that Thorin gathered them!But I even like it more with Iron Hills and as Tienity said we don't know with whom Dain had alliances so it is absolutely possible to had one with Ered Mithrin(Grey Mountains)  and Orocarni !After all in Ered Mithrin what have left from the Dwarves only few in numbers are Longbeards from Durins Folk and would naturally help the Heir of Durin!And Orocarni are close too!So I am all for letting Iron Hills have that outpost!
But that means Dains LV 10 Power should be changed since he has similar Summon!And I think he can get yo Summon 3-4 Battalions of Battle Rams! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 21. Jul 2015, 20:52
But that means Dains LV 10 Power should be changed since he has similar Summon!And I think he can get yo Summon 3-4 Battalions of Battle Rams! :-)
Why four battalions of Ram riders? :o
I think that one battalion is enough! Dwarves are not factions of riders. I think that dwarves should not have many battalion of Ram riders.
Also, Rohan isn't faction of strong infantry but Hama can summon one battalion of the Royal guard on level 10. 8-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 21. Jul 2015, 21:13
Well Hama is not Dain I mean he is not Lord ot Leader of that caliber!I think 3  Battalions at Max will br just fine!You wont be able to have more than 3 Battalions of Battle Rams at the same time !I think 3 Battalions of Cavalry doesnt make Iron Hills a strong Cavalry Faction nor mean big and unstoppable Cavalry! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Jul 2015, 21:29
Just a random (really random) thought: what if Dáin could summon, as his level 10 power, one battalion of Ram Riders and another one of the legendary and so-longed Iron Hills pikes from BOTFA as his personal Royal Guard.
These two special units will be able to be summoned once in the game, and they will be replaced (still by Dáin's power) only if your current ones die.

It would be a nice way to implement these BOTFA concepts in the game as special and unique units, while the other ordinary units of the Iron Hills would remain unaltered  :P
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 21. Jul 2015, 21:40
Just a random (really random) thought: what if Dáin could summon, as his level 10 power, one battalion of Ram Riders and another one of the legendary and so-longed Iron Hills pikes from BOTFA as his personal Royal Guard.
These two special units will be able to be summoned once in the game, and they will be replaced (still by Dáin's power) only if your current ones die.

It would be a nice way to implement these BOTFA concepts in the game as special and unique units, while the other ordinary units of the Iron Hills would remain unaltered  :P
And why not this? 8-)
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31195.0.html (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31195.0.html)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Jul 2015, 22:15
Just a random (really random) thought: what if Dáin could summon, as his level 10 power, one battalion of Ram Riders and another one of the legendary and so-longed Iron Hills pikes from BOTFA as his personal Royal Guard.
These two special units will be able to be summoned once in the game, and they will be replaced (still by Dáin's power) only if your current ones die.

It would be a nice way to implement these BOTFA concepts in the game as special and unique units, while the other ordinary units of the Iron Hills would remain unaltered  :P
And why not this? 8-)
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31195.0.html (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31195.0.html)

Great idea, and very logical  :)
Probably my idea was a bit less complex, but yours is indeed far more 'solid' and interesting for the gameplay  8-)
Titel: Assembly Hall for Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 26. Jul 2015, 19:32
I with LordDainIronfoot have some better ideas for Iron Hills outpost: Assembly Hall.

I think that the Lake-Town is designed for Ered Luin. Thorin and his company visited the Lake-Town. Ered Luin needs faster units and Bard.
Why Hills Iron needs second hero only with bow(Bard and Drar have only ranged attack) or faster units in fortrees and also in outpost? :o

Assembly Hall will represent the dwarven meeting there Dain asks for help dwarves from other kingdoms, similarly as Thorin in hobbit movie.

We don't know much about the Iron Hills and his allies. Maybe Dain had alliance with dwarves from Grey Mountains and Orocarni. Actually they are not too far apart.
Map (http://megawallpapershd.com/wallpapers/l/1280x800/43/the_lord_of_rings_maps_middle_earth_1280x800_42502.jpg)

Also, Thorin mentioned in book that he has kin in the mountains of the North(Grey Mountains are in north) and East. Dain and iron Hills army arrived first because they are dwells nearest to Erebor:
Hobbit, Chapter 15: THE GATHERING OF THE CLOUDS:
Zitat
Then Thorin burst forth in anger: “Our thanks, Roäc Carc’s son. You and your people shall not be forgotten. But none of our gold shall thieves take or the violent carry off while we are alive. If you would earn our thanks still more, bring us news of any that draw near. Also I would beg of you, if any of you are still young and strong of wing, that you would send messengers to our kin in the mountains of the North, both west from here and east, and tell them of our plight. But go specially to my cousin Dain in the Iron Hills, for he has many people well-armed, and dwells nearest to this place. Bid him hasten!”

Assembly Hall can have one of these designs:
or old design dwarven fortress from vanilla with some changes:

Assembly Hall will be a little more expensive(1500) than basic building of Lake-Town/Dale(800)

Assemble Table(with 7 representatives fo each dwarven clan) and Battle Tower are part of Assembly Hall.
Battle towert providing a better defense and Assemble Table offers a leadership:
Nearby friendly  units get +25% armor.

Similarly to Lake-Town or Dale, Assembly Hall can have some extensions with same system:

1) Dwarven tavern
Tavern produces resources and heals nearby units.

2) Dwarven balista
Unlocks Balista on roof on Assembly Hall.
Balista can have this design:

3) Assembly barracks:
Assembly barracks extension can have appearance one of three old dwarves barracks from 3.8.1:

Barracks unlocks dwarven units from Ered Mithrin and Orocarni:

Ered Mithrin and Orocarni units have better armor and are stronger against monsters and single targets than the Iron Hills units. You can have only 9 units from Ered Mithrin and Orocarni in same time.

Assembly barracks unlocks new hero, the Leader of Ered Mithrin dwarves:
Grimir:

We don't know about heroes from this area in books or movies. So, Grimir(or another name) can be leader of this dwarves. Grimir has only melee weapons. In addition, Iron Hills has own normal hero with a bow. Drar can be main archer in Iron Hills subfaction.

Grimir abilities:
Level 1: Defensive position
Grimir gives order to build defensive positions.
He summon two Ered Mithrin soldiers with big crossbow in selected areas for 30 seconds.

Level 3: Toggle Weapon
Switching between hammer/spear. Grimir now can use special anti-monster spear. Grimir with spear gets double damage against a monsters and cavalry, but he is more vulnerable against others units.

Level 5: Monster Hunter from Grey Mountains(passive)
Grimir inspires dwarves from different kingdom to battle against powerful enemies.
Nearby Ered Mithrin and Orocarni units gets resistance to fear and only half damage from monsters and heroes.

Level 10: Cry of the North
This power heals nearby friendly unit a little bit and makes nearby enemy units run away in terror, which includes monsters.

what do you think?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 26. Jul 2015, 19:58
Needless to say that I agree and support the idea! XD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 26. Jul 2015, 21:33
agree
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 26. Jul 2015, 21:40
Still I think that few Guards around the Building will feel like the Building is important and it will be cool!! XD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 26. Jul 2015, 23:04
I love your idea, this guy always has great ideas
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 26. Jul 2015, 23:13
I love your idea, this guy always has great ideas
Well I am offended by that! :D :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 26. Jul 2015, 23:20
LordDainIronfoot you also suggests good ideas especially for dwarf factions  xD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 26. Jul 2015, 23:22
LordDainIronfoot you also suggests good ideas especially for dwarf factions  xD
Ha ha ha!Tanks mate!But most of them we combine and think about them with Tienity to make them better and more balanced!So it is mostly like combined ideas from me and him! ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 26. Jul 2015, 23:29
No wonder they are so good ideas
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 27. Jul 2015, 01:14
well I have always found Thorin to be the more reasonable of the two xD xD xD
Titel: Re: Assembly Hall for Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 27. Jul 2015, 17:17

Another great preposition guys! :)
I see that you integrate some of my thoughts from earlier reply. (I am honored. xD :))
First I  was thoughtful is this kind of structure appropriate for Iron Hills?
This idea was taken from that dwarven meeting in Ered Luin, so location of this building was there when we speak in general. But in that time from lore we have that anyone of dwarven clan leaders could call this meeting. (There was no hierarchy among them, all seven leaders was equal because no one of them was in possession of Arken stone.) So this building from lore aspects could be integrated in any of dwarven faction.) 
Well I have few advices to just little modify your preposition. (All in  accordance with Lore ;) )
About that cost increase, I agree completely.
Like that building expansions, tavern is nice, like that  "Assemble Table"  :P (Maybe to describe that leadership?) My prepostion is just to buff defence of nearby Dwarven units.  ;)
Catapult is also nice idea, but I think that is little boring. (Dwarfs = catapults, let's go outside the usual). My idea is to add balista instead of catapult somewhere on this building. It could be used model of Isenguard balista. Maybe something like this:
Assembly barracks can have same design like King Dain's, really don't see there anything for dispute. This is justifiably from timeline aspect. (Iron Hills used this kind of structure in one time point, many years later Dain used that barracks again when he is king of Erebor.)
About units, there is next:
Really like prepositions, again have some advices:
Orocarni units to use that design of old Khazad dum veterans, but they should have mace and shield, (Mace you suggested for Gray Mountains units) and this units to call Warriors from Ococarni  or Guardians of the Red Mountains or  Guardians of the Ococarni. My suggestion is to use Phalanx of the Ered Mithrin, because dwarves there lived and fight "every day" with cold drakes and other foul monsters, so in their favour to survive, they must mastered weapons which is good against monsters. (And in game that is Spear/Pike. :) )
Crossbows stays from Ered Mithrin. (Justified weapon against monsters. :) )
(While playing Wotn,I really liked all dwarves who dwelt in  Nordinbad.) 


Think that white hair is nice and unique after removing old Dain's model. :) :P
Few text changes I propose in accordance with Lore af course. :)
 
Level 3: Art of survival rename it to Survival in the Withered Heath. (Survival in the most dangerous region of the Ered Mithrin, reasonable suggestion?)

Level 5: Monster Hunter from Grey Mountains:
Grimir has experience from the fight against the dragons and others monsters in Grey Mountains.
I would prefer in that description cold drakes instead of dragons, in my opinion more accurate description. (Drakes are wingless dragons, there are Cold and Fire Drakes, in Ered Mithrin there was lot of fights between Cold Drakes and Dwarfs.(From Lore)) .

Other parts are nice and unique. :)

Tienety, I hope you will like this.  xD :P

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 27. Jul 2015, 18:05
I like the amendment that iso CragLord with the idea that gave Tienety.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 28. Jul 2015, 10:29
Yes, this is a great idea CragLord. I integrate your ideas to suggestion. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 28. Jul 2015, 12:00
Btw, I have perfect sound set for Grimir if team decide to implement all this to the game. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 28. Jul 2015, 13:41
I to like your proposal and agree that spears are more fitting for fight against monster's! :-) But I just have to say that after all I sti think thar the Old  Veterans Models should be used for Grey Mountains but with Spears!
What sounds you suggest I want to hear them! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 28. Jul 2015, 14:36
Well, I am just trying to improve ideas, I am not in charge here.  :D
I suggest what I suggest in earlier reply according to Lore and my gameplay experience.
What I suggest about old model of Veterans (to have mace and shield) is simply because that model is old Dain's model and it has movements for axe/mace weapon, really don't know how will spear anyway fit in that kind of model's movements. That is first reason why I suggest that above. Second reason why I think this old Veterans model should stay at Red Mountains is because we have already models for Ered Mithrin dwarfs from game LotR:WitN, so there is no reason to complicate mixing of these models.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 28. Jul 2015, 16:19
Btw, I have perfect sound set for Grimir if team decide to implement all this to the game. :)
Can you upload this Grimir's sound set somewhere?

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 28. Jul 2015, 18:00
I would also like to hear the sounds

I would like to suggest a drive but if you do not mind

called warrior or veteran Gundabad Gundabad, an elite unit serious or heavy infantry, it vasara in dwarf warriors seeking to recover orcs Gundabad

This could use a two-handed ax and hammer could change for good will to destroy buildings

one could look as follows:

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 28. Jul 2015, 18:14
i like those armors
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 28. Jul 2015, 18:17
I can send you PM with link?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 28. Jul 2015, 18:42
for me this good
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 29. Jul 2015, 13:25
I have some new idea for units in Assembly Hall:  8-)

Barracks unlocks these dwarven units:

Option 1(old idea):
1) Guardians of the Ococarni(with mace and shield)
Orocarni units will have this design:
Mace:
2) Phalanx of the Ered Mithrin
3) Ered Mithrin crossbowmen
Ered Mithrin units will have this design:

Option 2(new idea):
1) Guardians of the Ococarni(with mace and shield)
Orocarni units will have this design:
Mace:
2) Phalanx of the Ered Mithrin
3) Ered Mithrin crossbowmen
Maybe this design for Crossbow:

Ered Mithrin units will have this design of movie Iron Hills army:
So, Iron Hills units will have old edain design(dwarves army of book) and Ered Mithrin units will have movie design of Iron Hills army.

Guardians of the Ococarni have better armor than the Iron Hills units.
Ered Mithrin units have better attack against a monsters than the Iron Hills units.

what do you think?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 29. Jul 2015, 13:31
I like the first option, as they vary the Dwarf realms
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 29. Jul 2015, 13:36
I like the first more too!Iron Hills Army should be Iron Hills Army ,but I like and agree about the Crossbow part! :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 29. Jul 2015, 13:54
I like the first more too!Iron Hills Army should be Iron Hills Army ,but I like and agree about the Crossbow part! :D
I think that this is not possible, because they prefer own old models with design from book for Iron Hills army.
But If movie Erebor soldiers can be Veterans from Khazad-Dum in edain universe. I think that also movie Iron Hills soldiers can be add as units from Ered Mithrin xD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 29. Jul 2015, 14:06

I am obviously for first option. Simply because of more diversity of units/Lore aspects.
Second option is also nice and i like it. If second is gona be implemented then main outpost building deserve new name, and other changes (There shouldn't be  Assembly Table then, because it is just about dwarves of Ered Mithrin). Second option is very tempting I must admit.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Dardrad_of_Ered_Luin am 29. Jul 2015, 14:14
I agree with CragLord, if we talk only about ered mithril then deserves another name
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 29. Jul 2015, 14:28
Well I know it is not possible but it doesnt mean the other option is better :D But stil lthen we just lose the whole point of th cool Assembly Hall :(
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 29. Jul 2015, 14:49
I'm a little bit edited second option. What do you think now?  ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 29. Jul 2015, 17:02

For now it looks very promising. :) Proud to be part of that shape.  8-) xD.These units should be comparison to LakeTown/Dale units. It's nice, shaped in both, Lore and balance way. Wise way to implement that BOTFA model,(Which lot of people like here. Simply we could use that model for Ered Mithrin, why not?)  diversity is there (Red Mountains, we have now reason for that Assembly Hall), team keep book model like main for Iron Hills,  and add this for Outpost. (C'Mon people just look to Mordor's Outposts, especially Minas Morgul units.)
Again, I must say, there is no point in other kind of Outpost for Iron Hills in my opinion. Simply Lake Town expansion is weird. (Honesty, is there any Lore aspects for this? Any Lake Town-Iron Hills relation?)
Tienety, this is very nice shape. :)  8-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 30. Jul 2015, 11:11
For now it looks very promising. :) Proud to be part of that shape.  8-) xD.These units should be comparison to LakeTown/Dale units. It's nice, shaped in both, Lore and balance way. Wise way to implement that BOTFA model,(Which lot of people like here. Simply we could use that model for EredLuin, why not?)  diversity is there (Red Mountains, we have now reason for that Assembly Hall), team keep book model like main for Iron Hills,  and add this for Outpost. (C'Mon people just look to Mordor's Outposts, especially Minas Morgul units.)
Again, I must say, there is no point in other kind of Outpost for Iron Hills in my opinion. Simply Lake Town expansion is weird. (Honesty, is there any Lore aspects for this? Any Lake Town-Iron Hills relation?)
Tienety, this is very nice shape. :)  8-)
I think that the Lake-Town is designed for Ered Luin. Thorin and his company visited the Lake-Town. Ered Luin needs faster units and Bard.
Why Hills Iron needs second hero only with bow(Bard and Drar have only ranged attack) or more faster units? [ugly]

Probably something like Assembly Hall or only Ered Mithrin outpost will be much better suited for Iron Hills. :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 30. Jul 2015, 11:40
Tienity is absolutely right! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: Tienety am 31. Jul 2015, 12:34
I find this Concept Art design, maybe this design will be more fit for dwarves from Orocami:

What do you think about this design? 8-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 31. Jul 2015, 14:54
Without the Helmet and with some less Heavy Armor it wil lbe the perfect choice for them! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin
Beitrag von: CragLord am 31. Jul 2015, 15:28
I find this Concept Art design, maybe this design will be more fit for dwarves from Orocami:
What do you think about this design? 8-)
I think mace is nice, armour remind me too much on present Veterans, just in diferent colour, same for helmet. It could pass, but in my opinion model of old Veterans is better. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 31. Jul 2015, 16:09
but look at the beards they are awesome
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 31. Jul 2015, 16:20
They look nice, anyway beards are the slightest problem...
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 31. Jul 2015, 17:47
Old Veterans look way more like Ered Mithinr by color and Armor shape and such rather than easterling Dwarfs!This Armor with some adjusments I think will be great for them! :) And different Colros ofc! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 31. Jul 2015, 19:42
And where precisley have you found description of armour/weapons/look of dwarfs from any of Orocarni clans?  :P  Or descriptions of "Armour shape" of Ered Mithrin dwarves?
I think that is your personal opinion, like I think that gray colour with some red details (old Veterans model) is nicely fitting for Orocarni dwarves.  :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 31. Jul 2015, 21:02
i found only those:
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 31. Jul 2015, 21:10
Old Veterans look way more like Ered Mithinr by color and Armor shape and such rather than easterling Dwarfs!This Armor with some adjusments I think will be great for them! :) And different Colros ofc! :)
And where precisley have you found description of armour/weapons/look of dwarfs from any of Orocarni clans?  :P  Or descriptions of "Armour shape" of Ered Mithrin dwarves?
I think that is your personal opinion, like I think that gray colour with some red details (old Veterans model) is nicely fitting for Orocarni dwarves.  :)
Of course it is my personal opinion!Did I said somewhwere that I have found an officila sorurce!? o_O
Grey Color not for Grey Mountains,o_O OK! :) But Red is already Iron Hills Theme Color so may be Yellow or Orange is more suitable for Orocarni!!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 31. Jul 2015, 22:45
This can be for Orocarni with some Color Changes!
(http://i.imgur.com/LkVn3uW.png)
And this can be for Ered Mithrin but with Spears and those HEavy Big Shields to represnt their roel as Monster and Drake fighters!?
(http://i.imgur.com/3xPCvYL.jpg)
Again with some adjusments!?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 31. Jul 2015, 22:52
yea i think its a good idea
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 31. Jul 2015, 23:52
That is nice model, that one could be nice Orocarni dwarf, like that helmet. Mace is better from picture Tienety suggested:
That is my opinion.  About Ered Mithrin, I would like to see that BOTFA model of spearman. About crossbow jet to deside, also Tienety suggest to be model from BOTFA with nice crossbow (IronHills xD ) model:

P.S. Old Veterans model, for what are you saving it ???  :P [uglybunti]
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 1. Aug 2015, 04:12
The Crossbow is my idea too!I am.glad you like the Orocarni suggestion!We cab see for qhat could be used thw old vets! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 1. Aug 2015, 08:53
This can be for Orocarni with some Color Changes!
That is nice model, that one could be nice Orocarni dwarf, like that helmet. Mace is better from picture Tienety suggested:
I agree, this design with mace from second picture is perfect for Orocarni. ;)

And this can be for Ered Mithrin but with Spears and those HEavy Big Shields to represnt their roel as Monster and Drake fighters!?
Again with some adjusments!?
He looks like a elite unit. Maybe use this design as elite Drakes hunters for Grimir on level 10?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 1. Aug 2015, 23:19
:) Ok, sorry my pal, crossbow is really nice. Orocarni suggestion is nice. ;)
What do you want to say? Didn't get it, Grimir doesn't have unit summoning spell in reply that conserns his abilities. :) Or you meant to add that unit like elite dwarven unit in Assambly Hall?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Aug 2015, 23:44
well he looks like an elite unit
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 00:07
Who is he? And when I said that "he" doesn't look like elite unit?
Can you be more precise and more descriptive in your future comments? I think that will be much better for topic and community in general. That is suggestion, not some kind of insult pal. ;) :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Aug 2015, 06:31
We were planing to add such an Ability with Tienity and that HEavy Armored Soldier looks perfect fiting for and ELite Anti Monster Units with Big Strong Shield and Spear! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 2. Aug 2015, 08:53
well he looks like an elite unit
Who is he? And when I said that "he" doesn't look like elite unit?
Can you be more precise and more descriptive in your future comments? I think that will be much better for topic and community in general. That is suggestion, not some kind of insult pal. ;) :)
ok mate
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Aug 2015, 11:59
What do you want to say? Didn't get it, Grimir doesn't have unit summoning spell in reply that conserns his abilities. :) Or you meant to add that unit like elite dwarven unit in Assambly Hall?
I mean new Grimir's ability on level 10. Hunt for the Dragon ability is not too much unique. I have idea for new better ability: xD

Level 10: Defensive position
Grimir and his kin prepared defensive position. He throw spears against enemies and can't move for 30 second. Also Grimir summon four Drakes hunters(with big shields and spears) which protects him. They have great armor and resistant against fire, ice, magic and poison.

Drakes hunters can have this design:

What do you think?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Aug 2015, 12:10
I think it is a great idea as most of yours if not all! XD And I support it but they should get Spears and why not 5 Soldiers at least kinda a like 1 small Battalion! :)
But I begin t wonder is there even meaning in discussin all fo this sicne there is no answer nor attenion(shown publicly) by the Team! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 2. Aug 2015, 12:46
agree
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 14:14
Ok, I realise that it is not soo innovative, but which hero have similar ability?  :)
This preposition confuses me a little. Does he summon permanent units? Or he summons temorary bodybuards who throw spears at enemies and then they protect him during protection he is immobilized for 30 sec? I think in this way because it's a little weird for one dwarf to throw a lot of spears on enemies by himself (One spear he maybe could throw nicely but more than one in small amount of time, it's weird from physical perspective of dwarf :P ).
I like that look of unit but it must be changed in some aspects. It is good armoured which is nice, but it looks more like robot than dwarf. And that gem in helmet, simply I found that too much. :)
That is something that really worries me. I presume they read all this, maybe they are waiting for better shape of inicaial idea. Anyway, some of their comments in disscusion can be motivating or not, but they really should be more involved in this Suggestions (eng) part of this forum. :P 
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Aug 2015, 16:56
Ok, I realise that it is not soo innovative, but which hero have similar ability?  :)
 
Lurtz has a very similar ability on level 10.

This preposition confuses me a little. Does he summon permanent units? Or he summons temorary bodybuards who throw spears at enemies and then they protect him during protection he is immobilized for 30 sec? I think in this way because it's a little weird for one dwarf to throw a lot of spears on enemies by himself (One spear he maybe could throw nicely but more than one in small amount of time, it's weird from physical perspective of dwarf :P ).
I like that look of unit but it must be changed in some aspects. It is good armoured which is nice, but it looks more like robot than dwarf. And that gem in helmet, simply I found that too much. :)
Hmm maybe a few changes: 8-)

Level 10: Defensive position
Grimir gives order to build defensive positions.
He permanently summon Ered Mithrin banner, two crossbowmen and six spearmen from Ered Mithrin around the banner. They don't move and protects banner.
Allies units nearby Ered Mithrin banner gets +20% armor. Defensive position has function like a battle tower and statue.

What do you think now? ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Aug 2015, 16:58
I like th sound of it!It will be unique and cool to use in game and more of all fiting for his role and history as a hero! :) Way to go Tienity my friend! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 17:47
Ok, missed that. :)


So far, we have next:


First I must say this proposal is unique and I like it. Like that banner idea, just again must remind you about few things.
First Dain is hero with buffs and unit summoning ability. We (you, Dain and me) are committed for introduction of Ram units (any form of them) in that Dain's summoning ability. So main summoner is Dain (in unit aspect), personally I like this banner idea, because we keep main summoner/support role for Dain Ironfoot. But this "Defensive position" must be limited (3 or 5 max). Simply because Dwarves already have a Battle  Tower Summoning Power, and this "Defensive position" is pretty strong, 20% defence is a lot of buff. Simply if this isn't limited, then you can make living wall of Ered Mithrin units and it buffes other units on battlefield, simply OP. :)
Then I again take a look at those abilities we suggested for Grimir, and there should be one more change so this hero will be similar to Bard/Brand. His leadership "Dwarf emissary" should only affect Ered Mithrin units, because Bard/Brand leaderships only affect LakeTown's/Dale's units. This is key in balance of Dwarven kingdoms. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Aug 2015, 18:34
Ok a few changes for Grimir abilities. xD

Grimir abilities:

Level 1: Dwarf emissary(passive)
Grimir inspires dwarves from Ered Mithrin and Orocarni to battle against common enemies. Nearby Ered Mithrin and Orocarni units gets +15% attack and +15% armor.

Level 3: Survival in the Withered Heath
Grimir knows how survival in the most dangerous region of the Ered Mithrin. Grimir is able to heal injuries. Heals all nearby heroes nad units.

Level 5: Monster Hunter from Grey Mountains
Grimir has experience from the fight against the cold drakes in Grey Mountains.
Passive: Now he has double damage against a monsters.
Active: For 15 seconds he deals +50% more damage.

Level 10: Defensive position
Grimir gives order to build defensive positions.
He permanently summon Ered Mithrin banner, two crossbowmen and six spearmen from Ered Mithrin around the banner. They don't move and protects banner.
Enemy monsters and heroes nearby Ered Mithrin banner gets -10% armor. Defensive position has function like a battle tower and statue.
You can have only five Defensive position in game.

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Aug 2015, 20:04
I prefer the previous version! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 20:53
It looks nice.
As I said earlier, there is no need for that permanent/temporary switch about banner, just to limit number of available banners because of that defence buff. That is my opinion. :) With or without that change it looks nice. ;)

P.S. I am not trying now to make some  mess here, if you just take into consideration usage of this banner ability + upgraded battlewagon (with banner upgrade) + other leaderships you have a lot of defence bonuses for dwarves. We should really take that into consideration when we suggest changes like this one, simply we should try to avoid OP situations for any faction. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Aug 2015, 21:56
As I said earlier, there is no need for that permanent/temporary switch about banner, just to limit number of available banners because of that defence buff. That is my opinion. :) With or without that change it looks nice. ;)

P.S. I am not trying now to make some  mess here, if you just take into consideration usage of this banner ability + upgraded battlewagon (with banner upgrade) + other leaderships you have a lot of defence bonuses for dwarves. We should really take that into consideration when we suggest changes like this one, simply we should try to avoid OP situations for any faction. :)
Maybe just different effect for banner. I made a couple of changes. 8-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 22:26
Ok, lets see:
It looks very nice. Units can stay permanently around banner if there is limited Defence positions in game. In both cases, it's very nice shape. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Aug 2015, 22:50
my fault, I just forgot to delete "for 30 seconds".  [ugly]
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 3. Aug 2015, 11:43
This way the idea is perfect! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 3. Aug 2015, 12:03
On a general topic, I'm a little bit confused by all your ideas about dwarves (new scout+outpost for Iron Hills?), and perhaps so is the team.
You'd maybe want to restart a new topic that summarizes your thought, I think more people would come into the discussion.  :) At least that's how I feel about it.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 3. Aug 2015, 12:14
It's not scout hero, it is new hero for new Outpost for Iron Hills. (Simply Lake Town don't fit as Iron Hills Outpost... Lore/movie reasons.)
About new scout hero for Iron Hills (Bilbo really don't have link with Iron Hills to be scout hero in this faction, same reasons like above.) we had disscusion here: http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30870.0.html
Maybe we should open new topic. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 12:46
On a general topic, I'm a little bit confused by all your ideas about dwarves (new scout+outpost for Iron Hills?), and perhaps so is the team.
You'd maybe want to restart a new topic that summarizes your thought, I think more people would come into the discussion.  :) At least that's how I feel about it.
 
i dont know about you Adrigabbro but i think  LordDainIronfoot always has a point about the dwarfs
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 3. Aug 2015, 12:51
He used to be the dwarf expert on the EIC on moddb, sure he brings cool ideas.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 3. Aug 2015, 12:56
On a general topic, I'm a little bit confused by all your ideas about dwarves (new scout+outpost for Iron Hills?), and perhaps so is the team.
You'd maybe want to restart a new topic that summarizes your thought, I think more people would come into the discussion.  :) At least that's how I feel about it.

I think new topic is not necessary. Grimir is new hero for outpost. You can find whole proposals about outpost here:  ;)
Assembly Hall (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31385.msg402615.html#msg402615)

You can find my idea about new scout hero for Iron Hills here:
Scout hero (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30870.msg401847.html#msg401847)

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 3. Aug 2015, 13:14
Thanks for the links!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 3. Aug 2015, 14:59
On a general topic, I'm a little bit confused by all your ideas about dwarves (new scout+outpost for Iron Hills?), and perhaps so is the team.
You'd maybe want to restart a new topic that summarizes your thought, I think more people would come into the discussion.  :) At least that's how I feel about it.
 
i dont know about you Adrigabbro but i think  LordDainIronfoot always has a point about the dwarfs
Thank you Gandalf for the support! :)
Zitat von: Adrigabbro
link=topic=31385.msg404194#msg404194 date=1438599118
He used to be the dwarf expert on the EIC on moddb, sure he brings cool ideas.
Thank you too Adrigabbro I am happy to see people like you! :)
P.S. I wil ltalk with Tienity and we wil do someting about the topics! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 8. Aug 2015, 22:57
Tienety, new idea about look of assambly hall. Maybe we could use  model of current Dwarven fortress from vanila:
Of course, there should be few modification.
First all towers from main building should be removed (except one, as you propose in general idea, one shooting tower from start, and this will make outpost  more expensive than others dwarven outpost expansions)
Second, inner hole (http://s5.postimg.org/j2jwzqtr7/Dw_fortress1212.png?noCache=1439067117) in building structure will be  filled, so fresh builded outpost should be something like this:

What do you think about this? :) xD
 
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 23:10
I don't think that assembly hall shoul be an outpost, why dwarves would want to meet in the middle of... nothing? Better option for this hall, would be to make it as new building available in fortress.
And, for outpost, some kind of mercenary camp. I'd like to remind, that dwarves are still lack of cavalary! It shoul be implemented as some human mercenaries. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 8. Aug 2015, 23:14
Have you read disscussion from start or you read only my last comment?


Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 23:15
Only few posts, selectively. For now.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 8. Aug 2015, 23:20
Always try to read whole disscusion before you even suggest something.
Anyway, calvary problem is not something which outpost should fix, simply because we already have 2 outposts without calvary (Dale/Lake Town).

For this I really don't have comment.

No sense in my opinion, trying to find proof in Lore, no success.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 23:45
But it's true. Council of 7 clans has it's place in Ered Luin Dwarves headquaters propably. Why they could want to meet outside their fortresses, that's not economic and dangerous, at councils like that, members usually are most important peoples. They wouldn't want put themselves in danger, and meet in outpost.

Erebor and Dale was rich enough to hire mecenaries to fight with Easterlings, it's logical. (of course they have own armies as well).
Little wars in worlds like Middle-Earth, never stops, so don't tell me, that they wasn't fight in time between Last Alliance war and arrival od Smaug. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Aug 2015, 23:59


Erebor and Dale was rich enough to hire mecenaries to fight with Easterlings, it's logical. (of course they have own armies as well).
Little wars in worlds like Middle-Earth, never stops, so don't tell me, that they wasn't fight in time between Last Alliance war and arrival od Smaug. ;)

And so were rich enough to hire mercenaries also Gondor, Lothlórien, Rivendell, Lindon and other realms/regions  :)
I think this is an extreme type of speculating, not conceptual at all.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 00:00
Ered Luin Dwarves headquaters? Do you know that Ered Luin are ruins in practical meaning of that word (Rebuilded ruins to be presise). Anyway, this is true. They won't be outside fortress, we propose some kind of fortress just like outpost building. They won't be in danger, they are important, and this fortress will be nicely deffended and strong builded.
One question for you: Do you undestand main idea? Or you simply try to explain us that this suggestion is bad because of "SECURITY" reasons? Do you see anything else in this idea?
Proof? Proof from LORE we need for basic of this idea. This is not logical at all. Eastelings and dwarves were in great war and bloody fights in  time of "War of the Ring". That segment of time is important simply, that segment of time is basic for this Game in general. Ask any game creator and let's see what answer you will get about time/lore aspects. :)
P.S. Any familiar story about Eastelings attack on Erebor???  Battle of Dale (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Dale) ?
And you really think that dwarves will give their gold for Eastling  mecenaries?
There is idea about calvary, and it is proposed many times in form of ram riders. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 9. Aug 2015, 00:26
Yes! Heads of dwarves clans just loves the idea of meeting in small fortress on suburbia, while bigger and better protected stronghold is near. :x

Yes, during War of the Ring they were in GREAT war with themselves. But little war on borders never stopped.

So don't tell me about siege of Erebor or Dale or Esgaroth.

And there was propably more cities and villages, to take mercenaries from.
I hope, that you don't think that at south and east of this three settlments, Tolkien's world was just empty? :P

And remember that Dale was known mostly of it's trade. If you think, that was only trade between Erebor, Dale, Elven kingdom of Mirkwood and Esgaroth, your'e wrong. There's has to be more settlements!  xD

Edit.

Oh, and if we are strictly into LotR games, there was siege od Erebor in original battle for middle earth campaing. It was during WotR, but still. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 01:12
Simply continue if you wish, really don't have intention to say any more word about this. After all, I am not main creator of this idea.
... Are you trolling me? I am not kidding.
And really, what did I tell you about Dale or Esgaroth or Erebor?
I just wrote Lore facts about why I think you preposition is bad and anti logical!
Are you telling us that your idea about  mercenaries is based on this? And you find "security" reasons like main obstacle in this idea for IRON HILLS outpost building... No comment.
P.S. Maybe this human mercenaries could have Harradrim horse riders model.  [ugly][uglybunti]
What indicate that I think Dale is only trade center? When did I write this? And please don't presume what I think.
Settlements? That problem is not part of this topic! This is topic about main Outpost, what about settlements?Start new topic about number of avaliable settlements...
Give preposition/reasons/lore, or without that idea means nothing.

I was thinking about Edain Team not EA. :) Simply team reaspects Lore above almost everyting. If you don't trust me PM them.
And yes, we are speaking here about WotR timeline.
That is Lore fact, pal. You need something similar from Lore so you can properly defend your idea. I simply can't find anything in Lore about your idea, because of that I think it is bad.
P.S. Again, I think you simply didn't try to read carefully topic from start and you simply don't have intention to understand idea. That is my opinion. Anyway, have you complete idea about new Outpost you propose? Look of Outpost, expansions, properties, and above all lore facts about your preposition. You express your opinion about our idea, can you be detailed with your idea so we can give you some proper feedback? I really don't have intention to read some elementary ideas and write huge texts like answers on them.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 9. Aug 2015, 02:03
And i think, you din't read my posts with understanding. Have nothing more to talk about with you, end of topic. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 02:05
End of our little discussion, not end of topic.  8-)  ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Aug 2015, 02:19
chill guys CragLord and  Linhir watch your blood pressure guys
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 02:24
This one was good, I admit. :D :D :D
P.S. Systolic/Diastolic Blood Pressure = 122/ 76 checked now.  :D  :D  :D
This values are pretty normal. (gramma has device) This comment was nice refreshment, Gray. Now we stick to topic.  :P xD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Aug 2015, 04:36
chill guys CragLord and  Linhir watch your blood pressure guys
This one was good, I admit. :D :D :D
P.S. Systolic/Diastolic Blood Pressure = 122/ 76 checked now.  :D  :D  :D
This values are pretty normal. (gramma has device) This comment was nice refreshment, Gray. Now we stick to topic.  :P xD
im glad you like it ;), and yes lets stay on topic xD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Aug 2015, 07:13
As DieWalkure said this is too much of speculation to be used!And I myself think that Dwarves have enough millitayr strentgh not t orely on Mercineries not to mention I do not think that their pride would ever allowthem to hire someone to fight their battles for them!So over all I do not think that Mercineries will fit for the Dwarves! :)
About the Hall and the "security"problem the building will have Battle Towers on it from the begining and some puchaseable Ballista and i even suggested few Dwarves arouond it as Guards and that is enough I tihnk!And it was never stated that the Heads or Embassadors of the 7 Clans gathered in Ered Luin they said "meeting of our kin in the North...|  which suggest many places where it could have been held with Guards around! Plus it is something like neutral ground for all from politic point of view! :) And if the outpost will be for Iron Hills we should keep in mind that Iron Hills is not Erebor and it is not only one Big Peak with one Fortress,most probably there were few Fortresses around the Iron Hills(as big mountain region)  and mines all over the Region which suggest that the meeting could be held in some place in the region of Iron Hills which is still Dain territory and stil lbe strong Stronghold with big security! :) Thanks again to CragLord for steping up for me and Tienity while we were away and Walkure too! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 9. Aug 2015, 08:06
Tienety, new idea about look of assambly hall. Maybe we could use  model of current Dwarven fortress from vanila:
Of course, there should be few modification.
First all towers from main building should be removed (except one, as you propose in general idea, one shooting tower from start, and this will make outpost  more expensive than others dwarven outpost expansions)
Second, inner hole (http://s5.postimg.org/j2jwzqtr7/Dw_fortress1212.png?noCache=1439067117) in building structure will be  filled, so fresh builded outpost should be something like this:

What do you think about this? :) xD
 
I think that this is a good idea. I would like see part of old Dwarven fortress again in game. 8-)

Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Aug 2015, 08:25
I actually like the idea of using the old. Dwarven Fortress but may be with more Greyish Color similar to the current Dwarven Buildings I really like your idea CragLord!And how about except one tower we get 2 but slightly weaker or one tower and when you purchase all upgrade buildings you automatically get like 5 Guards with Heavy Armor and Shields guarding the building! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 13:56
I think that this is a good idea. I would like see part of old Dwarven fortress again in game. 8-)
Glad you like it. :) I also think it would be shame if old model of fortress isn't used somehow. xD

I am really glad you like it too. xD :)
Color is slightest problem for now, agree that greyish is more suitable. Simply I like everything about "Gray" nowadays.  (**)  :D  :D  :P
About defence towers, I really don't know. I like your proposal, but I think this is one of main problems with this Outpost. Other dwarven outpost don't have that siege weapon upgrade like this Outpost (ballista upgrade from main proposal), insted they have simple defence tower expanision. So idea for future is to add siege expansions to Dale/Lake Town or to disable sioege expansion for this Outpost. About that tower upgrade you mentioned, I really like it. Also that version with dwarven guards. This will make"Security" reasons for disabling this idea smaller. :D ("Security" reasons from my last night's disscusion with Linhir, if you didn't read it allready)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Aug 2015, 14:11
I am not so sure about the Catapult/Ballista Upgrade instead we can get Two Battle Towers and later as mentioned few Heavy Guards around it! :)
I read your discussion and thats why I mentioned the Security problem :D :D
But the whole idea with Mercenerries is just not lore wise nor logical knowing the Dwarves as what I mentioned in my previous post! :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Aug 2015, 14:28
It is the most reasonable idea for now.
I really liked idea about siege unit upgrade ( meanwhile I thought abot Windlance upgrade for Dale/Lake Town to make balance between dwarven Outposts), but this idea is simply easier.  :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Aug 2015, 14:33
While I like the idea about the Windlance and was going to propose it myself :D I prefer more the Two  Towers and the Guards! :) It is easier and somwhat cooler  in my eyes :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Aug 2015, 15:11
I am not so sure about the Catapult/Ballista Upgrade instead we can get Two Battle Towers and later as mentioned few Heavy Guards around it! :)
It is the most reasonable idea for now.
I really liked idea about siege unit upgrade ( meanwhile I thought abot Windlance upgrade for Dale/Lake Town to make balance between dwarven Outposts), but this idea is simply easier.  :)
i think its an awesome idea Windlance
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 16. Aug 2015, 20:25
I added a Poll so that everyone can Vote and see what the majority of us Fans want! :) Feel free to Vote I am looking forward to the results! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 16. Aug 2015, 20:37
Voted! :) Me too, let's see results. :)

Notifiaction: Members who aren't familiar with this thread, please read whole topic before you vote! :) Thank you. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 16. Aug 2015, 20:47
voted
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 22. Aug 2015, 20:20
Ok, this thread is enormous, and thus I can't know if anyone has suggested this before (I'd wager that yes, they have). But my opinion is to make the Assembly Hall as an outpost for the three dwarven factions, so they would have three options just like Mordor. Dale/Esgaroth, Assembly Hall, and normal Outpost.
I think taking away Dale/Esgaroth from any one of the dwarven factions to put the Assembly Hall in its place would be terrible, since that would take away the only decent archers they have. And it's hard enough to play a defensive game as it is.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 22. Aug 2015, 21:05
Well, there are many reasons why your suggestion is bad, but mainly there are Lore reasons. Dwarves don't work like Mordor, you simply choose at start which faction you want, and in that kind of gameplay 3 different outpost for any of those kingdoms are too much and impossible.
First and main reason are lore and timeline.
Iron Hills faction has currently Lake Town as Outpost. This is not Lore inappropriate, because there are not any single link between Lake Town and Iron Hills in lore!
Second reason why you preposition is bad is because current Dale Outpost are from time of Erebor, that is point in timeline after currently implemented Iron Hills, so there are no logic reasons for that. (Same resons for combination of  Ered Luin and Dale!)
Third Iron Hills already have main Bow hero, Drar, they don't need Bard or any kind of extra bowmen as units.
And mainly three outpost for any of dwarven kingdom and that means 3 new heroes for each of those kingdoms. This is also anti lore and anti TIMELINE (Brand and Bard at same time?! They are separated by 200 years, Bard is dead and long time after that Brand is king of Dale!) And for last reason this is OP idea.
Assembly Hall is firstly suggested for Ered Luin (idea from movie), but later we noticed that Lake Town are most fitting for Ered Luin and Iron Hills don't have appropriate Outpost so this preposition about Assembly Hall moved naturally to Iron Hills (there are also reasons from Lore, you can read all about this in some of earlier comments, I really don't have intention to write all that now. :) )

And I know, as you said already that this is big and enormous topic, but simply you should always try to read most of it, simply you can't understand idea in general if you don't read all about it. :) That is just my opinion about ideas and topics in general...
I would quote this:
And you really think this (I would say epic idea) is bad becuse of archers??? :)  :P
And you really think that Lake Town's archers are needed to Iron Hills? I almost always play without Outpost (Lake Town) in general, I believe that most players don't use those archers as main range units besides that Iron Hills archers who do insane amount of damage with fire upgrade or battle-wagon support. And they are available from early start of game.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 22. Aug 2015, 21:41

What? Where does the army of Men in the Battle for the Five Armies comes from? Rhûn? The men of Esgaroth fought side by side with the dwarves from the Iron Hills, that's as good a link as any.


I didn't suggest all the dwarven factions should get Dale AND Lake Town, I rather meant that they should get one OR the other alongside Assembly Hall.


Yes, I do, dwarven ranged units stink even with Raven Tower, I need those human archers for a defensive playstyle.

And another reason why my suggestion is actually good is because you would be able to recruit limited number of units from all the dwarven kingdoms in Assembly Hall with all three factions.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 22. Aug 2015, 21:59
Oh really? 1 single point in timeline of history of middle earth, give me more please. And that isn't reason at all, if you take a look to lore accurately.

Same reasons, too much for singe faction.
But it is lore accurate, if you thought EL=Lake town+ Assembly Hall, and etc.

Catapults and those archers are enough for defensive playstyle (Castle), and don't need to mention camp which is really fitting for that kind of play, so archers here are not need to be mentioned. I really need to know who want to build outpost and then keep that outpost untouched somehow and then start with defence of main caste, maybe  some anti logic there??? Anyway, I know those archers are 1 class better than supportive units from  current dwarven outposts. That is main problem in this mini discussion...

That isn't bad suggestion but main idea is 1 faction = 1 outpost choise for now.
Again it is too much (OP) to have 1 outpost without unit limitations + that kind of  Assembly Hall. Too OP.

P.S. Have you read part of this topic about units, new hero in Assembly Hall?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 22. Aug 2015, 22:10
Again it is too much (OP) to have 1 outpost without unit limitations + that kind of  Assembly Hall. Too OP.

Well, tell that to Mordor. I don't think it OP, I think it's cool, varied, and fitting.

P.S. Have you read part of this topic about units, new hero in Assembly Hall?

No, I'm sorry, this thread is enormous.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 22. Aug 2015, 22:22
Well, this is just our little discussion, team here don't give any kind of interest at all, so don't mind me mate, I am just one of guys who like this idea and I helped to polish this idea from start, so because of that I started it's "defence" in this case against you. After all we are here to suggest and try to find something good which team will see like appropriate in their eye.
I told you all of this because you mentioned Mordor, that is not way you should think in this situation. Just think about this idea. And about Mordor, that faction is too OP because of that, I have expressed my thoughts about that many times over in Mordor topics, simply team likes current Mordor design and we (fans and members of this forum= "mortals" :D)couldn't do anything about that OP situation right now. But that is not reason to make Dwarves also OP. :)

Here is basic idea : Assembly Hall (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31385.msg402615.html#msg402615)
When you will have time start from beginning of topic, that is always best way to understand this idea in general, to see how idea has "evolved". :)

Regards
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 22. Aug 2015, 22:54

GODDAMN, Tienety's suggestion's for the Assembly Hall are AMAZING, I was stuck up on the initial post proposition, thank you CragLord for pointing me out (even though I still don't like losing Lake Town archers).

I love the expansion building options like the Dwarven Tavern (I actually thought about suggestion a tavern as a castle building before 4.1 was released, but never got down to it) and the Assembly Table. I think every original Outpost should have expansion buildings like this the way  Dale and Esgaroth have Militia House and the way Woodland Realm will have Wine Cellar etc. Otherwise original outposts like Dol Guldur and the dol Amroth one just look a bit... empty, shall we say.

I also love his suggestions for units, but I think Ram Riders should be there too (limited to three). I know the Team and German community don't like them, but oh well, the only thing I can do to support them is talk.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 22. Aug 2015, 23:08
You are welcome. :)
Always read whole topics and  read it from start. :D
There is no reason for Lake Town archers, when there will be some new range dwarven units. :P Lake Town will be always avaliable for Ered Luin, it is most lore accurate choice.

That is try, but point is on dwarven outpost expansion, in term of balance between them those expansion parts are proposed. Table is my suggestion at first place! :D
About Rams, best way to implement them is through summoning spell (Lord Dain or Murin). Murin suggestion (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30921.msg407349.html#msg407349), and there is similar about Dain summon ability, read this topic: Link (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31605.msg406399.html#msg406399)
They should be part of  Assembly Hall because on Dwarven Outpost expansions are only basic units (sword/axe, pikes, archers), elite are from barracks and there is only one hero unit and we all know way to get them. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: The Dark Lord am 23. Aug 2015, 13:44
nevermind the vote of errid luin i voted wrong :( read it to fast  [ugly]
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 23. Aug 2015, 13:52
No problem we will count it ad 1+ for Iron Hills!? :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 23. Aug 2015, 15:53
Here is the improved Concept for the Assembly Halsl by Tienity and Me! :)


If you are not familiar with it,read it before you make your opinion and vote! :)
Greeting from Lord Dain to all! :) Have a great day! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 23. Aug 2015, 17:26
Aulë bless Weta, and you guys!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 23. Aug 2015, 17:42
Thank you mate!I am happy that you liked the idea,we puted realyl a lot of passion and time in polishing it,now all we have to is hope that the Team will approve it and use it! :)
P.S.I see you are a fan of Bleach(my second favourite Anime ever)! Ban-kai!Daiguren Hyorinmaru!!!....
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 23. Aug 2015, 17:45
I like your proposal, Tienety and LordDainIronfoot!
I gives a nice variety between the 3 dwarven realms and would give iron hills (the most mobile of the three) a good defensive building. Though I fear your idea is A LOT of work, because it essentially requires 3 completely new units.
However I truly like your idea about Grimir because it balances out the "archer-factor" between the dwarves. (His abilities are also well thought out.)
One final question: You can destroy the banner, right?

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 23. Aug 2015, 17:55
Thank you about your honest opinion and it always makes me happy when someone likes and apriciates our idea! We are aware that there is a lot of Work,but we do not want it to happen right now,it is just an idea which if the Team likes and uses can be used in the future when they have the time for it!In the future when they can I hope they will use it,after all they are quite busy with the remaining factions and we know it! :)
If I am not mistaken,yes they can be destroyed! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 23. Aug 2015, 17:59
It is nice to see member of german part of forum to visit and support this topic, this is encouraging in aspect of popularity. :)
It is a lot of work, but it is very justified from lore reasons and diversity between dwarven kingdoms. 
Only what we really missing here is some comment from E.T. :D

Cheers Dain&Tienety. :D
 
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 5. Sep 2015, 16:47
Alright people the first suggestion has been posted, and it’s about the Assembly Hall. You can find the poll and discussion here. The attitude towards this idea is mixed in the German forums, some like it, some don’t. A total of 12 people have voted for including the Assembly Hall into the Iron Hills, and 12 people voted for forgetting this idea at all. I will summarize the given arguments in this post and perhaps we could think of a solution that benefits both us and the German community, and give something that the Team can work on.

Now as for the arguments against the suggestion; basically the greatest argument against it is that it doesn’t feel very much lore-like. The complaints are mostly about the possibility that there are probably no Dwarves left in the Grey Mountains, because they have been driven out by the Dragons and Orcs from the North. This means that they cannot have a force that is strong enough to fight for the Iron Hills. As for Orocarni there is almost no known information about them, they might even have fought for the Dark Lord. I sadly am not so great with the lore, so perhaps you guys know something that could persuade the Germans and the Team members?

The second argument that is given a lot is that they have the idea that this is just an attempt to get the Dwarven designs from the Hobbit movies into the game (personally I find this nonsense, because there have been plenty of other designs proposed for the units). Are there perhaps any other designs we could use instead of the Hobbit ones, so that we can “convince” them that this is not an attempt to get those designs into the game?

Whale Sharku is not for or against this concept, because he thinks that this will be a great opportunity to flesh out the Dwarven Factions, but the role of our current Assembly Hall is a bit small and messy. We should think about what makes this building so unique from the other settlements, since it is pretty much a copy of the Dale and Lake Town ones.

Lastly, Grimir has received some complaints too. Ealendril has personally noted that he doesn’t like the concept and the role of the hero at all, and gives no meaning to the mod. It has also been noted that the Iron Hills has just too many heroes.

So what do you guys think? It's perhaps better to make a whole new thread about it, and close this one so that there is more order within the discussions.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 5. Sep 2015, 17:04
Iron Hills have too many heroes  haha thats the best joke today!Then Ered Luin has too little heroes I guess :D :D
There are plenty of designs to use not only WETA COnepts!I ahve suggested i nthe past to use the Old Veterans Unit for Ered Mithrin! :)
Orocarni Dwarves are stated to have hepled Durins Folk in the War against the Orcs! http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/War_of_Dwarves_and_Orcs
Plus by al lthe logic with little Dwarves in Ered Mithrin then Ered Luin should be jsut small Sub Faction for Erebor sicne there is not information for being great and strong Kingdom to have big army,why do you think Thorin didn't have an Army on that Quest but just 12 Kinsman!?Ered Luin was like a small Collony made by the most loyal followers of Thror while most othe Dwarve from Erebor have gone to Iron Hills!
The distance problem is simply not Valid ,Lake Town is far from Erd Luin too as well as Gundabad and Dol Guldur from Mordor! :)
Here is about ered Mithrin Dwarves http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ered_Mithrin
Zitat
It seems that some Dwarves still dwelt in the Ered Mithrin during the late Third Age, so it is likely after the War of the Ring, the Dwarves drove whatever Drakes and Orcs were left totally from the mountains, and reclaimed the rest of their halls and mines in the Grey Mountains.
And plus the Number of Battalions ot Units in the Halls can be lmited to 2 or 3 to represtn the low numbers of Dwarves there! :)
The speculation on Evi lDwarves is the same as the speculation about not having any Dwarves in Orocarni,nothing can be sure so it depends on the person! :)
So having 2 Same Bards is better than a Hero which is not Bard!?
And no one said we want Movie Models they were jsut part of the idea!
And lastly I want to say that the ideas i open for suggetsion and impropvments,saying that this and that doesnt is no good is fien but lets suggeest something better! :) Eveyron can give ideas to finish the suggestion! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 5. Sep 2015, 18:52
i agree with dain
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 5. Sep 2015, 21:04
Nice comment Dain! Agree with you!
Main problem as could see on that german discussion is lack of real arguments against this suggestion... I meant real lore facts against this, not only simple thoughts about this!? From my prospective situation is clear about this suggestion when we take a look on german discussion about this...


I have read this also on german discussion...
Ok, I understand if Ea don't like concept of this hero, maybe there could be made some changes, but that part about no meaning to the mod, if I have understood correctly, I could say next:

1. Isn't better to have new Outpost hero for Iron Hills in place of Bard? What are lore reasons on which you based idea of Lake Town like Outpost for Iron Hills and in this term Bard like Outpost hero for Iron Hills. I have tried many times to find some reasonable link between them, no success. I can understand personal preferences, but current situation with Lake Town is not appropriate.
2. Bard is range hero, this is also kind of unbalance in this mod, Iron Hills already have 1 range main hero (Drar) ! Look at other dwarven faction. Erebor also has 1 (Brand), and Ered Luin  has 1 (Bard) (Killi is more like some kind of support, from objective perspective he is part of spell)
3. It is really disappointing fact that members of this eng part need to go to german section and use translator in order to get opinion from main leader of this team about this matter! Many thanks to Fredius!

Also about this Outpost building in general:

There is a lot of lore facts for this. We have written 9 pages of this concept btw, and we have express all lore fact on which we based this idea. And at the end we got opinion that this would not bring something new to the mod... Guys, be objective please, what is Erebor Outpost then Lake Town's one with different skin and same units... Same idea you have here in general, so please find better argument (plus those ideas have been used strictly from movie, we have tried to suggest something out of movie and mainly from lore! This is building which has existed in Tolkien world, it was important to the dwarves, we used that idea. There was reasons that this is copy of Lake Town/Dale. In term of balance as I have understood this game, shouldn't dwarven faction be equal when we speak about function of Outposts? As I have said earlier, this should polish Iron Hills more in lore way, Lake Town is really not appropriate from lore prespective)
And just to add this Outpost would have some dwarven based buildings and units, isn't that refreshment in this mod? Integration of other dwarven realms into this mod, isn't that good? I know this is lot of work, I don't deny that, but we are talking about this suggestion for far future obviously...

From all anti-suggestion comments from german topic, there is one in which member wrote that is is just "other" idea for integration of movie models. That is not true, we have suggested them, but also have suggested other models from other games (Wotn, and old veterans models, also a some of Weta designs). So please try to be objective and read idea in general, what I could conclude from that comment is that guy has seen only what he don't like and generalize that on whole idea.

Also there is comment that this mod don't need another two dwarven "völker" (people if I have understood correctly).
Why? Hmm, maybe because diversity, and representation of lore and in order to create something more interesting then Lake Town/Dale soldiers, and which correspond to dwarves also.   

Also in same comment from Gimilzar, there is reason that gray mountains are abandoned because of lack of ore and danger of cold drakes.

Yes they did, but you can't use now any time fact against this, simply Dwarves lived there, and they foughts cold drakes there, not so long ago before they have established Erebor, so anti time fact here is not something big reason to deny this... What sould we say about time gap which exist between some heroes or entire factions (Angmar/Arnor) if you want to be so precise?
Also there is indications that some of population have stay there and continue mining and fighting with cold drakes, so in that term, those dwarves must be fierce warriors indeed. There is also enough reasons to add them.
Main reason of adding those 3 units battalions (not populations or people or entire "völker") is to represent some diversity, best way is to use those lore facts and bring some units from population which existed... 
Also about lack of ore, I haven't found that in tolkiengateway/lotr wiki.

Iron Hills have same number of heroes like other dwarven faction, that complain about number of Iron Hills heroes is ridiculous. This is mainly idea of replacing Bard with some other more lore accurate hero...

About Orocarni dwarves, it is matter of personal opinion about what you think about them. One fact we know from lore is that they were fierce warriors and have gold lust before they got ring of power. But there is non single information of indication that they have ever served Sauron in any possible way!
Also they have fulfilled their oath when we got to the Battle of Azanulbizar! So that is indication that they collaborate with other houses, and Iron Hills were closest dwarven kingdom. Personally I find those dwarves really important, when we speak in general terms. It is natural to presume that those two Orocarni houses were mighty (they were isolated, had enough time without war, enough time to develop their kingdoms etc ), but this is also personal opinion mainly.

At the end, most of eng members don't speak english as native language, but we communicate here without problems. And I presume that lot of members from german part know how to express themselves on this part of forum, so I invite them to join here. It is "ridiculous" to communicate over Fredius (beside his good will to do this translations...) about this suggestion, simply this is original topic about this.


Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 5. Sep 2015, 21:38
Wow CraigLord and Dain those are great arguments thank you very much! Needless to say I agree with all of them. As you and LordDainIronfoot pointed out, we don't necesseraly want to use the Hobbit concepts, they're just ideas, so I'll just remove those from the main page so that they can't "accuse" us anymore. On the pages in this thread I found all kinds of concept art for the Orocarni and Ered Mithrin units, which are not from the Hobbit movies or it's concepts. Should I just post every one of them or only a select few?

Anyway, I'll try to make a summary of all these arguments, and put them in the first post of the poll inside the German forums. I'll do the translating tomorrow or monday, because making these translations is pretty time-consuming and I have also other stuff to do. Also I'll give it a little bit more time to see if there are other members willing to give more suggestions. Feel free to post anymore here! And as you said Craig let's hope that the German forum members post some of their ideas here too, because I'm pretty sure that a lot of them have mastered the English language ;).
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 5. Sep 2015, 21:52
First of all, I am from the german forum, so sorry for my english. :D
Personally I am against the concept, because i like Laketown and I think, it fits better to the dwarfs then this Assembly Hall. I can understand that you want to have the other dwarf nations in the mod, but I think that Laketown fits very well to the Ironhills. The Ironhills in the edain mod are concepted to the time of the Hobbit and we know exactly that at that time these fractions fight together against the Orks in the battle of the five armies. Because of this lore facts, Laketown is the Outpost from the ironhills and Ered Luin (also based on the book, because the Ered Luin are at the time of the Hobbit and fight together with the people of Laketown).


Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 5. Sep 2015, 22:02
First of all thank you for your opinion here!
And with all my respect the only connection between Iron Hilsl and Lake Town(which did't even had proper Army) is BoFA and thats all for the whole Third Age Period!? Lake Town is more arpropriate for Ered Luin there I agree but not Iron Hills,there are no evidence od Dain having connections with them and it is more apropriate to conclude he has relations with other Dwarven Houses and Collonies and Realms and although it is still kinda speculation it will bring more divrsity in game and allow the including of other Dwarven Realms of which at one time were 7!!
Plus Orocarni and Ered Mithrin existed trough the whole Third Age or at least nothing proves other way so there is no time probelm here at least to me!
And let's not start with the fact that Ered Luin wa NO actualy and millitary strong Kingdom!! :) In Ered Mithrin there are indications that small parties of Dwarves left and slowly cleared the Mountain from Drakes which makes the strong and 1-2 Battalions of them I find good! :)
And what is bad in having different Dwarven Houses/Clans which are uhniqe and different, I find it similar to Mordor having 10 kinds of Orcs from all over MIddle Earth!?
And 2 ideantical Outposts are not so uniqe and interesting when tere is unexplored and developed things like other Dwarves which will make more interesting and diverse!?
I find it better to have another Lore Hero than 2 identical Bards!? :)
So I am sorry to dissagree but I do not think Iron Hills has enough strong connections with Lake Town! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 5. Sep 2015, 22:14
Welcome Aragorn II. ! :)

I understand personal preferences. But in this case, Lake Town don't have lore connections with Iron Hills. You have specified link from BOFA, I will tell you next, those dwarves wanted to crush people of Lake Town when they decide to stood between them and Erebor (from book). So it was natural they fought together against goblins and wargs when they wanted to kill them all. :) In other words, this isn't fact which could be used for integration of Lake Town as Outpost for Iron Hills. Also there is no lore reason for this.
Other words, I understand that you like this Outpost, but it already exist in Ered Luin faction. :) You should also think about this.
What is more interesting 2 Different Kingdoms with 100% identical outposts and Units and Hero which do not have real connection or having a completely different units and hero with more lore connection?

Greetings.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 5. Sep 2015, 22:53
i agree with dain and cragLord on this one and also its not unique erebor has dale ered luin has lake town and iron heels got lake town too this is not right
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 5. Sep 2015, 22:55

[/quote]
And with all my respect the only connection between Iron Hilsl and Lake Town(which did't even had proper Army) is BoFA and thats all for the whole Third Age Period!?
No, but for the time, where the edain team had concepted the Ironhills


I find it better to have another Lore Hero than 2 identical Bards!? :)
So I am sorry to dissagree but I do not think Iron Hills has enough strong connections with Lake Town! :)

There is no Lore Hero for the Ered Mithrin in the time of the Hobbit :D
I think the connections between them are strong :D

But in this case, Lake Town don't have lore connections with Iron Hills. You have specified link from BOFA, I will tell you next, those dwarves wanted to crush people of Lake Town when they decide to stood between them and Erebor (from book). So it was natural they fought together against goblins and wargs when they wanted to kill them all. :) In other words, this isn't fact which could be used for integration of Lake Town as Outpost for Iron Hills. Also there is no lore reason for this.

Why is there no Lore reasons? :D They fight together in this battle.

What is more interesting 2 Different Kingdoms with 100% identical outposts and Units and Hero which do not have real connection or having a completely different units and hero with more lore connection?

Personally I think Laketown is more interesting. There is not an other fraction with more Lore connection, and which Hero do you mean? :D

Maybe you could use the units from Ered Mithrin in the travel stock (what is the name of the "Reiselager" in english?) :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 5. Sep 2015, 22:58
No, but for the time, where the edain team had concepted the Ironhills

Especially at that time there was no connection between Lake-town and Iron Hills, because as stated above they almost fought each other. If the Iron Hills were designed with the War of the Ring in mind, then it would make more sense to include them into Iron Hills, because I'm pretty sure they would have an alliance after the Battle of the Five Armies.

However, as the team designed the Iron Hills to be part of the Hobbit storyline, it would only make more sense to not give them Lake-town.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 5. Sep 2015, 22:59
Edain Iron Hills is from the Hobbit and the Hobbit is not about only 1 moth or 1 battle s oI still do not see big enough Connection and plus Iron Hilsl existed much longer before and after the Hobbit events!
So I still dissagree :)

No, but for the time, where the edain team had concepted the Ironhills
Especially at that time there was no connection between Lake-town and Iron Hills, because as stated above they almost fought each other. If the Iron Hills were designed with the War of the Ring in mind, then it would make more sense to include them into Iron Hills, because I'm pretty sure they would have an alliance after the Battle of the Five Armies.

However, as the team designed the Iron Hills to be part of the Hobbit storyline, it would only make more sense to not give them Lake-town.
[/spoiler]
Thank you my friend ,but if it as even at the Time off LOTR it should have been Dale and not Lake Town! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 5. Sep 2015, 23:28
No, but for the time, where the edain team had concepted the Ironhills

Especially at that time there was no connection between Lake-town and Iron Hills, because as stated above they almost fought each other.

At the end they fight together. I don´t think that another fraction, with a Lore Hero and Units, fits better to the Iron Hills than Laketown but it seems, that we have a different opinion :D

Edain Iron Hills is from the Hobbit and the Hobbit is not about only 1 moth or 1 battle s oI still do not see big enough Connection and plus Iron Hilsl existed much longer before and after the Hobbit events!
So I still dissagree :)


Which other fraction, that have a lore Hero and Units, have more connections? :D

I think in this discussion we have different opinions :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 5. Sep 2015, 23:30
Again we go on timeline gap, I tried to explain this so many times, and this continues...
Connections between Lake Town and Iron Hills don't exist! We try to explain many times!
I have tried to give my best here and to explain most of things in detail.
When I read something like this, I think 2 things, first is that I hope you are kidding with me, which is fine but it is not time for jokes about this right now. And second thought is that you are doing this with purpose, further I won't write...

What could I say??? Is this problem with me, or with your understanding of this discussion?
Simply we try to be objective with some lore facts, and we expect that from other in discussion. Other way, I find all of this like great waste of time and our life energy...
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gimilzar am 5. Sep 2015, 23:33
Zitat
Connections between Lake Town and Iron Hills don't exist!

I dont know what book version of The Hobbit you read, but I am pretty sure that during the Battle of the Five Armies the Men of Laketown and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills took part. So much for nonexistent connections.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 5. Sep 2015, 23:39
And again same thing...
Is this reason to integrate economic/miliatry/hero/support building for Iron Hills?
And btw,  I have read book many times and almost all others from Tolkien...
And if you have also read, tell me what was before goblins came?
And have you read comments from above?
Simply this is minnor reason, and you all know this! From lore aspect 0 contidions! And you also know this, or I presume you know, but matter of preferences is other problem. That is clear!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 5. Sep 2015, 23:43
Zitat
It is really disappointing fact that members of this eng part need to go to german section and use translator in order to get opinion from main leader of this team about this matter!

Just a small thing from the me as team member:
If we need to read all english and all german parts of the forums (and all new moddb things) and answer everything we'ld have to spend least one hour per day just for reading.
Let's say we have every day about 1,5 hours for modding.
This would mean that we can only mod for about 30 minutes per day.
So we can't read everything. Especially not when we are doing other things, like goint outise, planning holidays and so on.

Additionally some german users have the same concern: They say that the team answers more questions for the english community and is also more active in the english areas.

So basically what I want to say:
You always just see what's bad for you. And the more active we're in the forums, the less time we have for modding.

Zitat
So please try to be objective and read idea in general, what I could conclude from that comment is that guy has seen only what he don't like and generalize that on whole idea.
The thing is:
You can say exactly the thing about yourself. You also have your standpoint, the same way others have theirs. Just because they don't like your standpoint doesn't mean that they are less objective than you're.
Additionally your point is not a valid reason against this opinion.^^ For me the whole concept looks like: "Adding many more models, just to have more different troups ingame, just for the sake of more troups".(note: I don't mean the movie dwarves, I just mean more different designs) Some of them are from the movie, but still the point stands: I personally see no reason in gameplay. And I'm one of those guys who love a game more when there are less troups, but therefore every single trouple has a purpose and a reason to recruit. I know guys who like it more when there are more different units, even when have of them are just copies of other troups, but I prefer other things.

Zitat
And just to add this Outpost would have some dwarven based buildings and units, isn't that refreshment in this mod? Integration of other dwarven realms into this mod, isn't that good?
Well, as I said:
I personally don't like adding units "just for more different troups". I had no problems with the amount of troups in Bfme I where every faction had just one type of units for each role. For me the most important thing is the usability in the game and that there is a reason to buy this unit and not another unit.

Zitat
invite them to join here
We have many people who're still in school. Many of them can understand english, but discussing an entire topic is something completely different. You're always much more comfortable with your native tongue, as you have more possibilities to write something and you canw rite and read much faster. Additionally it's always more tiring to discuss in english than in german for us, especially when you're not used to communicate so much in english. It's easy to write 1-2 sentences, but writing a whole topic if you're not used to it isn't so easy. :P
Of course that counts for everyone, also many people from the english community, but I can fully understand when people want to discuss topic in their native tongue., when they have the opportunity for it.
Additionally noone forced anyone to discuss the same idea in both areas. Of course we are always happy and think that it's good when the two communities get closer to each other, but we can't and won't force the english community to speak english and we won't force the english community to speak german.

Zitat
Also there is no lore reason for this.
The same counts for the other way round. There is no lore reason for the other idea.
Of course it's nice to have something different, but I'm personally happy with the current integration.(note: personally, I don't speak for the whole team here, as I haven't asked every single one of them what they prefer^^)
I can understand that other people prefer different things and therefore I wasn't writing something, because I currently have only less than one hour per day for modding and I don't want to spend 90% of it discussing things and afterwards having no time left to do anything productive for the mod.

So:
Don't blame the team for answering some questions in the german forums, as we're doing the same here in the english parts. And also don't blame the german community for staying more in the german parts. If you'ld be in a forum with your native tongue for 2 or more years you also wouldn't just switch and do everything in english. And there are already some german users who are also discussing with you here in the english parts. Additionally people only write something to topics which they are interested in - and I have the feeling that the english concepts have a different style than the german ones. So it also can be that most german users just don't mind as much about the ideas which are discussed here, as they are more interested in other concepts. (and when you're not interested in a topic you're even less motivated to write in another tongue.^^)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 5. Sep 2015, 23:45
I dont know what book version of The Hobbit you read, but I am pretty sure that during the Battle of the Five Armies the Men of Laketown and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills took part. So much for nonexistent connections.

Yes that was after they decided to almost go at each others throats, whereas Ered Luin had no quarrel with Lake-town at all, that's why I think that Lake-town belongs to Ered Luin, simply because they never fought each other xD.

Look, the Edain Team wants to make every Dwarf realm unique right? Why should two Dwarven Realms share the same outpost? If we are talking about connections then I'm pretty sure the Iron Hills would have had more connections with their brethern in the Grey Mountains/Red Mountains than the Men from Lake-town?

EDIT: Sorry Gnomi I haven't read your reply before posting this, but I'll make a new post to reply on your reply.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 5. Sep 2015, 23:47
CragLord why so aggresiv? :D You wanted to have comments from the german forum, and this is my opinion. We do not know that the Ered Mithrin and the IronHill fight together after the battle of Azanulbizar, but we do exactly know that the Dwarfs of the Ironhills and the people of Laketown fight together.

Maybe you should not defend your concept so angry and try to understand  the people which found that the Ironhills and Laketown fits well togehter.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 5. Sep 2015, 23:54
One Battle in which they were FORCED to fight together doesn't make an alliance you see! :) You do know that the Dwarves of Iron Hilsl are Durins Folk and have come from Ered Mithrin right!?
And to Gnomi I am really dissapointed about your opinion on our ideas too se them jsut as adding more troops,it is nothing like that,just morediversity about the Dwarves race thats all! You always think we want things for no reason which is not like that!
And it seems you always tolerate and deffend the German Part more,nothing to say on the matter!
To me it is clear who is mroe objective ,to you all our ideas are waste of time and just unreasonable suggestions I see!
And please do not forget English is not our nattive language and we too have personal lifes and all,I am at work 12 hours a day and work at home too while prepare to study so you are not the only ones who spare time for the sake of this awesome Mod!I am sad tha you think this way but it says a lot to me!!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 6. Sep 2015, 00:04

You have a point there, but just look through all the threads in the English suggestion forums, and then look through the German ones. The amount of participation from the Team members in the English forums is far less than in the German forums. The German members can complain about the lack of attention, but looking at it from a neutral point one can see that the English forums get almost no attention at all.

Of course you don't have the time to read every suggestion or whatsoever, but wouldn't it hurt to sometimes respond to some suggestions posted in the English forums, mainly for big ideas like the Assembly Hall? This already can give the English members a better feeling that people actually take them serious. If no attention is given at all then you might as well remove the English suggestion threads.


We don't want more troops, we just want to change the current ones that are litteraly copies of the troops from another faction. If I may exaggerate; it's basically saying that you are fine with giving Gondor troops from Morgul. And we don't demand to have those concepts implented into the next version of the mod, just do it when you feel like you want to; it's your mod after all.


I happen to agree with you, translating one suggestion is already a pain in the ass xD, especially when both German and English are not my native languages. But still I do this because I have the feeling that the German and English forums are just too divided, I believe I already stated why I think so.


We are actually very thankfull to you for participating in these discussions. Please know that we are not (all) English or American, just people from other countries who happen to speak English so we can communicate with each other. I also don't see much difference between the "English" concepts and the German ones, don't worry I also read some of them, what exactly is this difference in your opinion?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 6. Sep 2015, 00:07
One Battle in which they were FORCED to fight together doesn't make an alliance you see! :) You do know that the Dwarves of Iron Hilsl are Durins Folk and have come from Ered Mithrin right!?

I do know that Durins Folk have lived in the Ered Mithrin :D But i didn´t know a Hero of the Ered Mithrin, which exist in the lore at the time in there the edain version of the Ironhills is mainly designed.

To me it is clear who is mroe objective ,to you all our ideas are waste of time and just unreasonable suggestions I see!

I don´t belive that Gnomi think that all your ideas are waste of time. Maybe he just doesn´t like the concept. I think it's nice that he tries to mediate between the two Forums and  suggestions in the German forum were also criticized.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 6. Sep 2015, 00:13
I see no mediation at all it is alwasy the same,,we do not like that and German Forum is always right! So as much as I respect him an his Team,he is not objective at all! :)
We are not talking about the Hero Being Lore ,the hero is non canon the same as Drar and Murin,but the idea about Orocarni and Ered Mithrin is much more Lore friendly thatn Lake Town and the Hero is just to not have 2 ranged heroes in and to have different one that Bard! :)
But it seems to the Team having different Ourposts for each Dwarven Realm is no good and not needed and with that I have no choice but subdue,so I will stop the discussion about sicne it seems no facts can prove our point valid to you nor the team! :)
So have a great day from me! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 6. Sep 2015, 00:20
I don´t belive that Gnomi think that all your ideas are waste of time.

Actually that is just half of the truth. He just stated that the English concepts feel "different" to him than the German ones, perhaps that means that our suggestions are just weird proposals to him that shouldn't be taken seriously  [ugly]. That's why I just asked him to elaborate that statement.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 6. Sep 2015, 01:15
This was mainly about Ea, thanks for reply.
That is all true and honest from you, but If I saw that Ea, instantly reply on german part about this matter, and he didn't post single reply in this topic from beginning, even famous "Sign", what should I/others think in general? Also this is one of the biggest threads on eng part.

Also of course I am aware about time distribution, I am just trying to be objective. I hope you undestand this in that way. About time in general, we all have our lives, and this forum is hoby matter, so if we spent a lot of time here and wrote walls of texts we have taken this matter seriously. In that term I really don't see why should free time of any member here be more precious in comparison.

Man, I am not talking about what other or I like, point is Lake Town doesn't fit as Outpost for Iron Hills, that is objective lore matter! You will do what you want with your mod, we all know that. But it is annoying also when someone suggest something and then memeber of team says it is not lore wise. What should we think in that situation? Of course I am replying on similar situations not on stupid ideas...
And if you have read all of comments, they "pinned" to main battle in BOFA, simply they don't understand or don't know this wasn't intended from start. Dain wanted to fight/kill those poor Lake Town survivors! So please explain them meaning of word "objective".


Lets be precise then.
Tell me honesty Gnomi what is point with all those Mordor units/models? How is possible if you have that kind of thinking that you let implementation of those "waste" armies of Morodor models?  Or maybe you see this still like problem in game?
Also, why you have integrated Dale for Erebor then? This is also new bonus units?
That is main problem here! You have implemented 2 correct Ouposts for 2 dwarven faction, and there wasn't place/good will/lack of references for third. I must tell you this, we are for some change! I am not talking here imperatively about integration of strictly assembly halls! Simply trying to defend my idea. We need something new for Iron Hills, that is main point here.
This is as you said just model change... Also I could counter ague about current Esgorath models...
Agree, I thought on memebers who can handle writing/reading. As I have said, I presume that "lot" of members understand and they are capable of communication. I mean, we don't expect all members to join discussion anyway.
Of course we are not forced to discuss in both areas, but mainly I could translate from german part and see many things which are not mentioned on eng part (Like was case with Murin raiders idea or other ideas from Vorschläge section). I hope you understand we in right way.
I also don't have intention to waste you time dedicated for modding. I love this mod, other way, I won't do this! Only suggesting some ideas for improvements in my opinion ofc... This is serious waste of energy if you look from serious perspective, but I know that you know this fact. :)

As I have said above, I will underline again.
We don't expect serous discussion about any of ideas with all team members, we are only expecting some short answers (You wrote nice long reply not first time I know that, and thank you, but situation on topic demanded that...) maybe, and that is matter of good will mainly. :)
In general I understand what you meant here, simple request is to give some indications in form of small answers for pointless topics in your (teams) opinion. In that way you spare our time and we spare more wasting of yours. :)

P.S. Just take a look at Aragorn's comments. I would dare to say some of them are provocative and sarcastic comments in general, also many similar comments in a row, this is something which makes discussion big and pointless at same time. When I said objective I meant objective. Next time please take that into consideration before you stand in "defence" of similar members!

Again, I have written here my honest thoughts,  I hope you will find them honest not only aggressive like mr Aragorn have said. Thank you for reply!

Regards

Edit: I started writing this comment immediately after you have posted yours, so I am sorry for other comments which I haven't take into consideration.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 6. Sep 2015, 01:38
P.S. Just take a look at Aragorn's comments. I would dare to say some of them are provocative and sarcastic comments in general, also many similar comments in a row, this is something which makes discussion big and pointless at same time. When I said objective I meant objective. Next time please take that into consideration before you stand in "defence" of similar member

I don't wont to be provocative and sarcastic. I have just wrote my Opinion,  because some member of the english community want that a member from the german forum be a part of the discussion. And why are my posts less objective than yours? We have different opinions, this doesn't mean that one of them are more important than the other.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 6. Sep 2015, 01:50
I don't wont to be provocative and sarcastic.


Aragorn, look at this post here. You actually laughed on every reply and I don't know about you, but to me that looks very sarcastic and provocative.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 6. Sep 2015, 01:50
man with your logic then why put thorin son of dain should not be in the game because he was not in the battle of the five armies
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 6. Sep 2015, 02:18
As my answer got pretty long I will put everything in spoilers...^^

If someone wants to discuss anything further, please send me a PM and we can talk about it. All of this has nothing to do with this topic.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gimilzar am 6. Sep 2015, 02:23
(Blast it, Gnomi was faster :D)

I think this is getting out of hand and a moderator needs to be called in to take care.

Currently this so so much out of topic as you can possibly think of. It's no longer about the Concept whether or not an Assembly Hall should be introduced to Edain. It's more like a German Community vs English Community matchup. Even teammembers told you some of their concerns about this whole concept. In the overall in sounds nice on paper, but the problems start at the implementation.

Right now I'd suggest you'd calm down now, before things get spoken (written) you'll regret later. And please try to be less stubborness. We all know you guys have some kind of a "need-for-dwarf-attention". Currently there are more urgent things to discuss such as how to balance the game with an upcoming faction or specific spell reworks.

Honestly I see no point in this Idea of yours. A third subfaction for the Dwarves, completely different from the Dale/Laketown faction, would take too much time and effort for different modding projects. Just acknowledge someones opinion about certain topics and don't make a personal crusade out of it where you attack verbally that person who criticise your Idea. Just deal with it.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 6. Sep 2015, 02:42
Okay people I too agree about that we should end the discussion on this topic about the participation from the teammembers. If you really have something to say about this matter then please PM me and I'll try to summarize them all and send a PM to Gnomi, because I too have some little things I want to ask him myself. That will have to wait till tomorrow because its sleepy time now for me :P. Gnomi and the rest of the German community I want to thank you anyway for participating here, it means that the English forums have some meaning to after all.

So lets discuss this concept a bit further, closing it would be a waste imo.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Linhir am 6. Sep 2015, 03:12
Guys, take a chill pill!

1. Aragorn II is just random troll, ignore him.

2. I personally don't agree about many things that Gnomi wrote, but I still respect him and have awareness that he's mod creator, not me. He may or he may not use mine or yours ideas, and we have to deal with it.

3. Yes, i think too that Dwarves of Iron Hills should get a new outopost.

4. If team members don't have many time to spend on mod, then they should focus on modding, not on forum. Good idea will be that few forum moderators will be choosed, which will read all suggestions and briefly pass them to the team. And then ET will choose if they want to take a closer look to ideas that sounds most interesting.

So Crag, Dain - chill. ;)

Gnomi - Main reason that most of players chose Edain, is diversity from original. Diversity containing buildings, units, heroes, spells and many many more. So it's wouldn't be wise to limit them to only this ones who's most useful, as you like.
For example, before Edain I was playing "RJ" mod because it added new factions, heroes etc., and I only gave it up, because in my opinion, Edain have more potential in all this areas.

Aragorn II - Get back on german part. Leave now and never come back!  xD
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 6. Sep 2015, 14:21
Yes, we are obviously in that mood, is that bad? :)
I agree about fact there is more urgent things to do, also it is really funny fact that we lately almost always get that kind of answer, there is more important things to do...
Nobody here expect instant implementation of this idea or instant start of making any kind of new models. We are expecting just feedback in term of short answers, answers should be continue with this or not.
Any way, this discussion become futile in my opinion, so this is my last post on this matter probably...

This is best comment on this topic, and it totally describes situation here.
Linhir, you should post this earlier and spare us of many comments. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 6. Sep 2015, 14:49
3. Yes, i think too that Dwarves of Iron Hills should get a new outopost.

From your previous post I thought you were against the outpost, so I had added ypu to the "against" list in the German section. My apologies for that I'll change that now :).
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 6. Sep 2015, 15:19
One last thing frmo me then I'm out. I'm only writing it here, because you can argue that it has to do with the topic.
Zitat
Gnomi - Main reason that most of players chose Edain, is diversity from original. Diversity containing buildings, units, heroes, spells and many many more. So it's wouldn't be wise to limit them to only this ones who's most useful, as you like.
Have I ever written that I would want to do those limits?
No. :P I know that not everyone has my opinion and therefore I would never suggest such a thing. As I also tried to say, the amount of truops always depends on the game. I also play AoW and every faction has about 20 different units. It fits perfectly for that game and I'm happy for it: But every unit has a purpose and there is a reason why you should be unit A or unit B.

Concerning Edain:
In earlier times (until edain 2.2 or something like that) edain already had really good skins and modells, but it was more of a standard mod. Why? Well, we just added dozens of different units and dozens of abilities. You had about 5-10 troups in every barracks and there was nearly no difference between most of them. Then we started to think more about the units. We put some of those units in spells (and made them not buildable anymore).
The more we changed those things, the more people started to say that edain doesn't feel like a normal mod anymore, but more like a completely new game.
Of course it's important to have new designs and have more things in the game as in the vanilla game - that's one of the things which made edain famous. But edain also got so big, because we started thinking about different ways of integrating units, which helped us to intergate more designs, but still have everything easy to understand, suitable for new users (if you build a barracks and have 20 different units it's more irritating and even when the units are good, it's more difficult to get ued to the mod)
The same counts for
When we did this, suddenly edain got more and more famous and even though the game got older, we got fans much faster than before. :)

So you're right: People like edain for the diversity.
But this diversity exists and is less stressful if there is no overkill and you have the feeling that you know what you're doing and aren't unsure all the time what you should do.^^

So we will continue doing this:
Adding new things, but we won't just add them as normal units to have more units, but will always think about way to integrate them and give them clear and easy understandable duties (and differences to other troups) to help beginners fully understand and enjoy the game. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Aragorn II. am 6. Sep 2015, 16:14
If I have seemed provocatively, I'm sorry, that was not my intention. English is not my mother tongue, so it is more difficult for me than to write n German.
However, I find it's not fair that some members insulted me personally. I think I have, as everyone has, the right to express my opinion about a concept and can understand that not everyone like my opinion. But for me that is not a justification to call me a troll.
In a discussion you will rarely have the same opinion as the discussion partner. I think you should always respect the other member, even when he/she have another opinion. Because my comments were apparently not understood the way they were intended, but were perceived as provocative, I think it`s better when i go back to the german forum. I hope the matter is resolved and you can continue on your concept discuss

Have a nice day.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 7. Sep 2015, 08:39
Ok, I made a few changes in the concept.

About Ered Mithrin. Thorin also asked for help for dwaves from the mountains of the North(Ered Mithrin is in north). If dwarves don't live in this area. Why would he do that? 8-|
Hobbit, Chapter 15: THE GATHERING OF THE CLOUDS:
Zitat
Then Thorin burst forth in anger: “Our thanks, Roäc Carc’s son. You and your people shall not be forgotten. But none of our gold shall thieves take or the violent carry off while we are alive. If you would earn our thanks still more, bring us news of any that draw near. Also I would beg of you, if any of you are still young and strong of wing, that you would send messengers to our kin in the mountains of the North, both west from here and east, and tell them of our plight. But go specially to my cousin Dain in the Iron Hills, for he has many people well-armed, and dwells nearest to this place. Bid him hasten!”
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fine am 7. Sep 2015, 10:49
I think he was talking about "The North" in general, as in "the northern part of Middle-earth". So he sent messengers to the mountains in the north of the world, not "in a northern direction from here".

Dwarves did live in the Ered Mithrin, I believe they went there after living at Erebor for some time after the fall of Khâzad-dûm. But during the youth of Thrór, grandfather of Thorin, they were driven out by Dragons who killed their king, Thrór's father, and his brother. The dwarves then returned to Erebor as well as settling in the Iron Hills. There have been no reports of Dwarves living in Ered Mithrin since.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 12:25
My friend the quote Tienity used is the pure evidence that some small numbers of Dwarves or Colonies stayed in Ered Mithrin! :-)
North part of Middle Earth yoy say mate!?Well Ered Mithrin is in North Middle Earth ,well Iron Hills too but from Erebor point it is in the East! :-) And where else in Northern Middle Earth there were Dwarven Kingdoms except Ered Mithrin!?I doubt there were Dwarves in Carm Dum or Angmar ,the only place left is Gundabad Peak but it belongs to the Orcs from thw Ancient Times! :-) So the only Northern Mountains and North from Erebor where could be Dwarves is Ered Mithrin! :-)
Here is a map my friend
So please show me where other in the the North Middle Earth there can be Dwarves that Thorin refered to!?Except the Ered Mithrin which is in Northern Middle Earth and is North of Erebor itself! :-)
I hope you understand what I mean !
Greetings! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fine am 7. Sep 2015, 12:38
I respect your opinion and the friendly tone of it! :)
But to me it seems that the quote is talking about the mountains of the North of Middle-eart, east and west of Erebor - that would be the Blue Mountains in the west, and the Iron Hills (and possibly the Orocarni) in the east.

if any of you are still young and strong of wing, that you would send messengers to our kin in the mountains of the North, both west from here and east, and tell them of our plight.

It is entirely possible that there were still small holdouts and outposts of the dwarves in the Ered Mithrin, but the quote Tienety provided does not seem to imply that Thorin sent messengers there.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 12:54
Thank you for the polite attitude! :-)
And while I agree that the quote has somehow double meaning and can mean two things ! :-) But you have to agree that while it can mean Mountains of the Northern Part on East and West it can also include the Northern Mountains itself which is Ered Mithrin! :-) And I think those few small colonies would be able to send at least 2 battalions as reinforcement in BFME ! :-)
So the point is that the one meaning doesn't exclude the second one amd I think we both agree that there are some small numbers of Dwarves in Ered Mithrin! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 7. Sep 2015, 13:46
He said both West from here and East. The important part is from here, and North from here lie only the Grey Mountains, not even the Iron Hills because that lies directly to the East. If you take a look at the map, the Grey Mountains are a long range of mountains that reach as far as near Gundabad, so with "both West and East" he most likely meant from the Western point of the Grey Mountains to the Eastern point of the Grey Mountains. Having said that, perhaps the Dwarves were only driven away in the eastern part of the Grey Mountains, but the Western part was still intact? Or they were just spread like little colonies on the mountain range?

Furthermore, this quote might actually prove that the Orocarni Dwarves were contacted as well. "Both west from here and east" he might have meant from the Western point of the Grey Mountains to the East where the Red Mountains are.  This doesn't seem impossible if you ask me ;).
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 14:31
I admit I didn't thought about that as a possibility!! :) But Fredius is absolutely right! :)
There is no 100% specific place pointed as a residence fo the Dwarves in Ered Mithrin which suggests they could have had few Strongholds trough all Ered Mithrin which indeed is quite a long and wide MOuntain Range! :) And even if you think deeper into it what is the point for Thorin to send for Help from Ered Luin,simply put they are too far away to be abel to get there in time ,too long distance so it is pointless! :)
So I agree that the East includes Iron Hills and Orocarni and North being it in West can actually mean West Ered Mithrin after all as I said it is long Mountain Range and it is possible to have still some smal lDwarven Stronghold or even few! :)
Nice argument there Fredius,you really got me this time ;) :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 7. Sep 2015, 15:01
i agree with dain on this one also i think iron heels with lake town it just make no sense
even when they fight together in the movie lake town that now is dale leave the dwarfs and the elfs and they are going to defend dale so it makes more sense to have the elfs as an outpost for iron heels ??? i think not and to put 2 lake towns is kinda not unique i dont know this is just my thinking
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 7. Sep 2015, 15:09
I admit I didn't thought about that as a possibility!! :) But Fredius is absolutely right! :)
There is no 100% specific place pointed as a residence fo the Dwarves in Ered Mithrin which suggests they could have had few Strongholds trough all Ered Mithrin which indeed is quite a long and wide MOuntain Range! :) And even if you think deeper into it what is the point for Thorin to send for Help from Ered Luin,simply put they are too far away to be abel to get there in time ,too long distance so it is pointless! :)
So I agree that the East includes Iron Hills and Orocarni and North being it in West can actually mean West Ered Mithrin after all as I said it is long Mountain Range and it is possible to have still some smal lDwarven Stronghold or even few! :)
Nice argument there Fredius,you really got me this time ;) :D

Heh, well if I knew about this quote before than I certainly would have said it sooner ;).

i agree with dain on this one also i think iron heels with lake town it just make no sense
even when they fight together in the movie lake town that now is dale leave the dwarfs and the elfs and they are going to defend dale so it makes more sense to have the elfs as an outpost for iron heels ??? i think not and to put 2 lake towns is kinda not unique i dont know this is just my thinking

That makes sense, Lake-town had better relations with the Mirkwood Elves than the Iron Hills Dwarves. If Mirkwood was a faction of it's own than it would only be logical to give them Lake-town.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 15:13
After all said and done here I just really hope that we were able to show the worthiness of the idea and convince our German freinds that it is more lore friendly and proper than Lake Town for Iron Hills! :)
I really hope that they will see the logic and facts and conclude that it is more apropriate for Iron Hills based on all lore facts we shared here! : )
Greetings! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 7. Sep 2015, 15:28
I'll edit the post on the German forums as soon as possible guys. Thanks btw Tienety for the changes in the concepts, but I won't put in the crossbow design because they want as few hobbit concepts as possible (else they might accuse us again :P). And I agree, at this point the lore shouldn't be the reason for not using this concept.

However, are there some other ideas we could use for Grimir? Ealendril himself stated that he doesn't like his design in both appearance and abilities. That's all the information he gave.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 16:42
I agree Fredeius,there are many possible looks for Crossbow so it wil lbe better as you said to remove it so we won't get accused again! :)
Here are efw None Movie ideas! ;)
And I most of all hope that lore will no longer be the rason to hold the concept back! :)

About Grimir there are endless possibilities since he is not a lore hero!We can make him even from Orocarni and give him all sorts of abilitie as long as te Team finds them good! :)
Here is Concept from my personal favourites which I would have loved to see as Dain,Nain or Durin himself! :) but ti can be used for Orocarni Lord or Ered Mithrin Chief...
And with all my respect ot Ea as Leader of the Team,if he do not like the current Grimir but still likes the idea he simply can suggest a diffrent Hero with different name and Abilities,after all it is an open discussion about the Idea should it be used and how can it be improved! :)

Greetings to all! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 7. Sep 2015, 20:32
Looks great, I will add all designs to the German forums. I think that Grimir would be most suited to the Ered Mithrin, since at least we now know that there are in fact still Dwarves in the Grey Mountains.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 7. Sep 2015, 20:54
I agree Ered Mithrin is much more "known" in a way since it is Durin's Folk Collony and Grimir belongs better there but if the Team want an Orocarni Hero I am fine with it!
we can even change his name :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 8. Sep 2015, 15:49
However, are there some other ideas we could use for Grimir? Ealendril himself stated that he doesn't like his design in both appearance and abilities. That's all the information he gave.
If I understand Ea don't like Grimir at all. So he can't be in mod. We don't know about heroes from this area in books or movies. Maybe we can use some dwarven character from War in the North game as leader of this dwarves. Maybe this guy:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gorin (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gorin)

If this Assembly Halls this is not good idea at all, maybe you will like more my old idea: Ruins of Dale (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31040.0.html)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 8. Sep 2015, 15:56
I like the idea about Gorin,but I tihnk he should get a little different design to not look so "Kingly" after all he is not King or Lord of Durins line but he may be some Dwarf Nobleman or Lord who stayed as a Leader to the Ered Mithrin Stronghold/s/Collony/ies ! :) but the ideas about him is really good! :)
About the Ruins of Dale as an Outpost I really do not like that idea!To me at least is is like weraker and somehow uglier version of Lake Town Outpost and it still doesnt have connection with Iron Hills just as Lake Town itself and another thing is that what can it offer? A hundred fisherman,oldman/woman and etc. I do not see it so fitting as and Outpost at all yet alone for Iron Hills,I am sorry to dissagree with you this time my friend,but that is my humbe and honest personal opinion on the matter! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Sep 2015, 16:41
Tienety again awesome idea man
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 8. Sep 2015, 18:54
However, are there some other ideas we could use for Grimir? Ealendril himself stated that he doesn't like his design in both appearance and abilities. That's all the information he gave.
If I understand Ea don't like Grimir at all. So he can't be in mod. We don't know about heroes from this area in books or movies. Maybe we can use some dwarven character from War in the North game as leader of this dwarves. Maybe this guy:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gorin (http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Gorin)

If this Assembly Halls this is not good idea at all, maybe you will like more my old idea: Ruins of Dale (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31040.0.html)

I too think that using a king of the Dwarves won't be a good thing, and it's true what you said, as we don't have much info from the books about the heroes from there, so thinking of something new is pretty hard. I must also agree with Dain about the Ruïns of Dale idea; it's basically a ruïned version of the Dale building that Erebor has, mixed with a weaker version of the units Lake-town has. And don't worry my friend, including me a lot of people love the idea of the Assembly Hall :). To expand further on the topic of Grimir; I myself have been searching for images on google and stumbled upon a simple concept art from lotr wiki:


I think the right one could be used as our new Grimir? The left one looks awesome too. Also to make him even more unique from the other heroes I'd like to give him a long pike; specially designed against Monster units which the Ered Mithrin Dwarves are good against. We also have to think about some other abilites for him. The level 10 power is nice but summoning extra units is already something that the Assembly Hall does, therefore I think the level 10 power should be something that strenghtens the capabilities of the Hero himself and the Ered Mithrin units. Perhaps a "Cry of the North" power where he uses a battlecry which is followed by battlecries from units nearby (similar to Theoden's "Deaaath!" power). This power heals every screaming unit a little bit and makes nearby enemy units run away in terror, which INCLUDES monsters. I just thought about this one in a couple of minutes so it's not very much :P, but if you guys have better ideas than by all means share them!

Now there is one more thing I'd like to say. The user "Lidloses Auge" in the German Forums made an excellent comment where he described that we should think carefully about the abilities of the units the Assembly Hall gives us. He describes that Lake-town fits perfectly with Ered-Luin because they consist of quick and light infantry units that Ered-Luin is lacking. The Iron Hills however, already consist of light units, so the Lake-town infantry don't add anymore to the faction apart from cool looking visuals (and even cost the same price as the regular units). With Drar, the faction already has a Ranged Hero, so Bard doesn't fit with the Iron Hills at all.

Now, I think that we should discuss if the Ered Mithrin units should consist of Elite Dwarves; of whom the player only can build 3 hordes per unit (in other words limited to 3 Guardian hordes, 3 Pikemen hordes and 3 Crossbowmen hordes; this also adds to the fact that there are not all too many Dwarves living in Ered Mithrin). Or we could make them limitless like the standard units, but with one little extra effect to them. The Iron Hills already consist of light units; so the Ered Mithrin units (whether they are limited to 3 hordes or not) should by all means become all heavy armoured to compensate the Dwarves of the Iron Hills who lack heavily armored units. Also the extra effect these units have is that they are stronger against Monster units than the regular Dwarves from whatever kingdom, since they are experienced in fighting Drakes. If we decide to make them limited to 3 hordes than they should also be stronger against regular units than the other Dwarves. If they are not limited than the extra strength against monsters is enough.

So what do you guys think?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 8. Sep 2015, 19:36
I agree with Fredius but still to concepts for Grimir look to "ordinary" he is supossed to be something like a Leader of te Ered Mithrin Dwarves so may be a little more Noble Looking Designs is better he may be a Dwarven Nobleman who took over after Durin's Heirs took off,this is all my idea since the Cahracters is non canon! :)
So I think this might be a godo Concept for how Grimir/Gorin can look! But with White/Grey Beard! :)
or this...
Now about his Weapon,while Spear is the most logical Weapon for Mosnter Fighter it just does not fit at least into mine idea of a Dwarven Hero,so for weapon may something Two Hadned with like bigger range and area attack that can do a lot of damage to a Monster similar to a Spear! So why not something like this...
or this...
Now I agree with the German User and thank him for the nice and friendly reply which even gave us a directions how to improve the idea and I can say to him that he may offer any ideas he/she have! :)
About the Soldiers from Ered Mithrin,I think the indeed should be limited to 3 to express the fact that Ered Mithrin has limited man power/soldiers and are not some mighty Dwarve Realm like Iron Hills but just a Stronghold/Collony! :)
And here is some designs that I think will look great for Ered Mithrin and may be Orocarni even...
The Ered Mithrin Soldiers should be only Spearman and Crossbowman no need for Guardians(they will keep them fro home defense after all they do not have such great Army :D )
And I have an idea for the Spearman which I do not even know if it possible but I will say it,if it is possible they can a Special Formation "Monster Slaying" where the form a Shield Wall in a circle around a Monster(suround it) and use their Spears to which will do exra DMG briefly with CD or as a Permament Formation untill you break it! Or alternative Ability "Spear Throw" they trhow their Spears dealing Extra DMG to Monsters and can be used ONLY against Monnsters! While the Crossbowmans will not be able to get Fire Arrow Upgrade but will have somehow similar to Ered Luin Crossbowmans Ability called "Dwarven Steel Arrow Heads" or just "Dwarven Steel Bolts" which will briefly do Extra Damage but only against Mosnters again!? :) What do you think of those ideas!? :)
The one on right can be used fro Ered Mithrin but with some Havier Armor for Upgrade may be!While the left one can be used for Orocarni and the Gold/Yellow parts will symbolise their big natural greed ,to me atl east it makes sense and looks nice! :)
And they indeed should be Heavy Armored in Comaprison to Iron Hills to compansate for their lack of Armor but indeed be slower and basicaly do more DMG against monsters but not against Units because that is Iron Hills main Strentgh :)
About Grimir/Grorin Ability I really like your idea but I could add giving the Soldeirs a little boost in DMG too briefly of course! :)
And if I may suggest that he can have a Summon Ability but not just Summoning Soldiers like Battalions but rather few Soldries like 5-6 looking like this...
That will surround a Monster or just be Summoned infront of it and making one strike at him with Iron Steel Arrows which do Great DMG to a Single Target Monster and then dissapear!Or the same concept can be used but with this Weapon...

And I have a suggestion if the Team wants a new look for the Assembly Halls rather than the based on the Vanilla Fortress one,they may use this with few adjusments to the style of the building with more Edain Dwarvish Style...Collons,Statues and etc.
Here are some even better designs for the Assembly Halls but again with some Color and Shape Adjusments to the Edain Dwarven Style as I said above! :)

And I agree that one Ranged Hero is enough for Iron Hills which makes Bard not needed and somehow unbalanced compared to the Erebor and Ered Luin! :)
Also I want to say that the basics of this idea is not just add more kind of Troops but rather give apropriate and more lore friendly versions of Lake Town units but with Dwarven Vision and thus showing something more of the Dwarven Realms and will give unique Outpost for Iron Hills which is like with 1 stone 3 rabbits! All I mean is that it is just for the sake of Diversity and Uniqueness of Each Realm and the Soldiers are just supposed to be more fitign versions of Lake Town Units but more sutied and lore friendly with the Iron Hills! :)

All this are just ideas and suggestions and anyone who has some ideas being from German or English Forum is welcome to say them here so that we may be able to improve the concept more to the Team's liking and increase it's chances to get used in the Mod! :) I am waiting for feedback and thank you all in advance! :)

Greetings from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Sep 2015, 22:36
AWESOME IDEAS DAIN
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 9. Sep 2015, 00:12
Great ideas, I made some changes in concept. 8-)
Assembly Halls (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31385.msg402615.html#msg402615)

Well, I wrote almost same thing some time ago. xD
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31385.msg403437.html#msg403437 (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31385.msg403437.html#msg403437)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Sep 2015, 11:34

Many of these ideas I like, but you must know that things like a spearthrow ability and that big ballista/crossbow is not possible, because a completely new animationset has to be made from that and I don't think the team will make those to that extent. In other words we have to come up with a new level 1 ability. The design of the units, however, look nice.

And do you guys really like that Cry of the North power? I just made it up in a couple of minutes so there is always more room for improvement xD.

By the way have you guys seen this?

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,27867.0.html

The units actually look exactly like how I imagined them, such a shame that it's not from Edain xD.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 11:59
Oh I didn't thought about the animation problem,well it is not big deal we will just remove thar idea no problem about that ! :-)
I know about that Mod and I really like most of the Units in it and those of Ered Mithrin look perfect and i wouldn't mind if the Team usrs them it will be even easier to create! :-) But since it is from other Mod even with Edain participation wouldn't that be a problem,if not I would love to see those Units in game as Ered Mithrin! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 9. Sep 2015, 12:33
if i know a similar animation is already in game. :P
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 12:37
Yeah I based my ideas on those Isengard Big Crossbows ! :-)
And about the Spear Throw in Rogan Unit,couldn't it be used!? :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Sep 2015, 19:21
Ah I didn't remember that Isengard Ballista; perhaps because I never played BFME2 skirmish mode xD.

Well people, I think it's about time I translate everything and put our new concepts in the first post. Good luck to all of us and let's hope our super-great-excellently-awesome idea will be used in the mod!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Sep 2015, 19:26
i hope it will
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 19:33
Well I just hope you guys liked my ideas and concepts and abilities with Spear Throw and etc...
Now for real my friends lets hope fingers crossed for the Team and German Forum to like all of our combined efforts! :-)
GREETINGS! :-)
P.S. I just have a thought since Ered Mithrin and Orocarni Units must be somehow equivalent of Lake Town and Dale Units we can make this which will fit.great I think for Ered Mithrin and Orocarni style!So this is what I mean ,we can have Ered Mithrin Spearman(Lake Town and Dale Spearman) ,Ered Mithrin Crossbowman (Lake Town and Dale Archers) and in the end Orocarni Guardians (Lake Town and Dale Swordsman) all those will be limited to 3 Battalions for Unit to represent the small numbers of Dwarves in Ered Mithrin and the fact that Orocarni are long distanced and have some grudge against Lonbeards so thats why they send only few in numbers! :-)
What do you guys think about that!? :-)

Oh and here is what I think is the best(to my opinion and persenal taste) design for Grimir/Gorin and I think Edain had simillar Design for Thorin Oeakenshield in Odler Versions which can be remade a little and used! :)
I think this Old Thorin Figure will work perfectly as a look for Grimir/Gorin it looks Noble and Leader like a Lord but not so Kingly to represnt that Ered Mithrin is not a great Dwarven Realm led by a dcendant of Durin or other Father of the Dwarves! :)
What you think about it!!? :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Sep 2015, 22:42
That Grimir looks great Dain, to me it's better than the older one! I think solely Ered Mithrin units would be best, because having only regular warriors of Orocarni and only spearmen/crossbowmen from Grey Mountains doesn't really suit me well tbh. If Orocarni were to be put in the mod then I'd like them to become a standard swordsmen/spearmen/archer combo like the other factions.

I'm about 25% done with the translations and I'll continue tomorrow.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Sep 2015, 22:49
Very nice lore explanation about limitations of dwarven numbers. That is really nice argument for those limitations, I personally support this. Also I think that new Grimir's look is best suggested so far.
I am thinking about new maybe passive abilities this new units could have, will post something about them ASAP (I have came to idea, if those units are limited and as you have said from balace terms they need to be stronger, maybe we could suggest for new passive abilites for every single one of them, something similar exist with Mordor's Cirith Ungol units, every single unit have unique passive ability, in case of those units they should have more defensive like those Cirith Ungols do more damage, because Iron Hills is already DPS faction in term of units).

Also guys I will suggest something which is maybe to radical, but it is really unique (personally I have got that if we not suggest something unique or lore wise we are doomed in start, so I will suggest this which is in my opinion unique and lore approved from movie aspect :P)
I was thinking, we have suggested ballista like upgrade for Assembly Halls (I have suggested it at first place), so maybe we could also think about Windlance. I mean, windlance is something very unique, this could only be avaliable at Outposts of dwarven kingdoms.
So I will underline now, so this don't make some confusion, this idea is mainly because of balance between those dwarven Ouposts. I have suggestion that all Ouposts have Windlance upgrade, or Lake Town/Dale have it and Assembly could stay on idea about balista. So in general all three Outpost have "unique" siege weapon expansion.
Windlance could have mainly anti monseter and anti air role! Their attack could be only air oriented or both air and ground. I presume this is something which animations are very hard to do, so mainly this is idea on which should be watched like upgrade of Outposts, not something which is indispensable part of this Outpost building or this idea in general!

P.S. I have just noticed Fredius comment, so I have to add next, we have a problem with idea in general (I mean with idea of Assembly Halls) if we have only one "kind" of dwarves. In that case, we shouldn't add Assembly Halls at all, insted we should add some reinforcement Ered Mithrin building or Orocarni building in other case. So from my prospective, Ered Mithrin and Orocarni units are necessary if we want base for Assembly Halls, if we want in this Outpost only Ered Mithrin or only Orocarni units, then we should suggest new (in term of look, properties and some expansions) Outpost building. :)


 
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 22:56
I am glad you like the Grimir look! :)

No while I share your opinoin about the Orocarni,we have to think about the Balance!If te Assembly Halls give much more Units for Orocarni like Guardians,Spearman,Archer(or something else) as well the same for Ered Mithrin it will make it arther unbalalnced and too strong comapred to the Lake Town and Dale only 3 Units! :) And as much as I would like too se full Orocarni Army I think that the Team will not like it if it s like that!

So have Balance between the 3 Outposts we should have the Same Number of Units available,that at least what I think! And I think I suggested a godo way for that! :)
Ered Mithrin 2 Units it is closer liek distance and relationship with Iron Hills and 1 Orocarni Unit because it is much bigger distance(and Orocarni Can't leave their Stronghold undefended by sending full Army) and also they have a grudge against Longbeards so they still honor their word but send less Reinfrocments!
And further more since the Units are Dwarves they have to be basicaly stronger(Have more Health and Armor than Dale and Lake Town) to balacne that we will make them Limited to 3 Battalions per Unit which will also corresponds to the low numbers of Dwarves in Ered Mithrin and the grudge and the long distance of Orocarni! :)
So what do you think my firend do you agree with that!? :)

P.S. Take your time and rest,no need to hurry you are doing enough for us as it is now! :)
Absolutely agree with you Crag,and I think mine idea makes a perfect way to have both Orocarni and Ered Mithrin Units and have Assembly Halls! :)

I agree over all with that diea,but I think the animation for Windlance could be a problem or may be not,I am not sure! :)
Greetings! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Sep 2015, 23:47
Hmm good points guys. Okay I too agree with the Assembly Hall containing both Orocarni and Ered Luin units.

Altough I too like the windlance idea, please remember that making animations is one of the hardest things in BFME. However, I'll put the windlance idea as a proposal for an upgrade and if it's not possible then the alternative would be a standard ballista.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 10. Sep 2015, 00:00
Windlance is something new in term of all Outposts, you just underline that is suggestion as I have described above... I really don't want to give some new reason of rejecting this idea. I know it is just radical, but in other hand it is really unique, and I hope Ea won't say again that this idea is lack of new stuff. :P
My preposition is to focus on new passive unique abilities for those dwarven units for now.
Thanks again Fredius! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 10. Sep 2015, 08:19
Well, If Orocarni and no-canon hero is big problem, We can add some Ered Luin Adventurers to Assembly Hall with some hero from Thorin company or Nár (http://www.tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nár).
Ered Luin Adventurers can have old design(like in Ered Luin faction) but with hood and cape.

Maybe Assembly Hall can have all three standard unit from Orocarni(or Ered Luin) and Ered Mithrin but with different strengths.
Orocarni(or Ered Luin): better armor
Ered Mithrin: stronger against monster and single target
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 10. Sep 2015, 10:04
I am for Orocarni ,Ered Luin Armor Soldiers you can get with Dain LV 10,I think Orocarni are the better choice for th
Assembly Halls! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 10. Sep 2015, 11:41
agree
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 10. Sep 2015, 18:42
Hello to all! :)

Concerning myh last suggestion for Grimir Model,I remebered that it was used for Thorin Oakenshield Model in much Older Version of Edain Mod!Which will make it easier to use with just few Color and graphic adjusments I think at least  it will be! :)

All this makes it easier for the Team I think,if they still keep the Model of course! :)
The only things I think should be cahnged are diffrent Color of Clothe and Cape!May be Dark Grey or Pale Blue Gray with Grey Clothes!? And a little change for te Hair Style and Beard to look more like this....

And I think he should get that Shoulder Armor!It looks awesome and cool,I think they will fit good and will be nice on him to see in game! :)

Well and different Weapon like Two Handed Mattock or smoething I suggested in previous Posts!
What do you guys think about this!?

Greetings!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 10. Sep 2015, 19:25
I am not for this idea, Nár is know like Thrors companion, old dwarf, more messanger than warrior. Also it is matter of preferences about Orocarni, as I have understand team finds them like dwarfes who might be allied with Sauron. That is matter of preferences and individual opinion. From lore there is not singe one fact to support this thinking.
All we know is that in East was four tribes, they lived in rich mountains, full of different kind of minerals and some of those tribes had gold lust. :)

I agree about special abilities, but 6 units, that is too much.
As I have said earlier, I presonally think that in Assembly Halls we need different types of dwarven warriors from different kingdoms, that is base of Assembly Halls. In other case, we should suggest some Orocarni barracks or Ered Mithrin structure for Ered Mithrin units in particular.
I like idea, but I think it is OP, just make comparison with other dwarven Outposts.

In comparison with regular Iron Hills infantry those units will have more armor, and they will do more damage to monsters.
At start all Assembly Halls units should have 10-15% more armour than regular infantry.
About passives abilities:
Orocarni guardians will have passive ability named : Gold lust.
Those units during fight get into state of Gold lust, if they are focused more than 2 sec on target, then they got 10% of attack speed (or some other amount of bonus attack speed, this makes Guardinas effective against single target enemies).
Ered Mithrin units will have passive ability named: Monster fighters
They will do bonus damage against Monsters, and only monsters.
Against normal units they will do standard damage.


Agree, nice suggestion. :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Sep 2015, 02:29
Lovely ideas guys really great work!

I agree with Crag and Dain, Ered Luin doesn't really have to be a part of the Assembly Hall; I think the idea of using Dwarves from less-known kingdoms is what makes our Assembly Hall unique!

Yes Dain that model could indeed be used with some little changes to it, nice work!

Nice idea Crag about the Goldlust! I have thought more of making it a little more unique; what do you guys think of the idea of making the "Goldlust" power a passive power of the Orocarni Dwarves who give money to the player everytime the they kill an enemy; because they raid their corpses for valuables? This will definetly display the greedy nature of the Orocarni Dwarves.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 11. Sep 2015, 04:39
A have to agree with Crag on this one!Too many Units will ruin the Balance with Dale and Lake Town just as I said in previous comments! And as Fredius said having different than the current Dwarven Kingdoms is what makes the Assembly Halls what they are and unoqe! :-)

I really like the idea about those Passsive Abilities and Bonuses I think they fit perfect ,I see you have thought very hard about them and made excellent work in creating them :-)

My friend I have thought about that too as a way to represent their Gold Lust but since Iron Hills Regular Army can gain a he same effect trough Thorin III Runes and it will not be so unique but nevertheless the idea is good and if the Team likes I will happy to have it in Game! :-)

Greetings! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Tienety am 11. Sep 2015, 09:27
Great idea but I think that Grimir can keep his old sword. 8-)

Nice idea, but Orocarni dwarves should gets gold with this Gold lust ability. Maybe Orocarni dwarves can gets gold if they are attacking the enemy buildings. What do you think about this?

Orocarni dwarves can gets same power with Thorin's rune:
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Sep 2015, 13:28
I didn't know about Thorin III's ability, looks like I have to play the game more often xD.

Gaining resources from buildings is a good alternative to me, thanks Tienety! What does the rest think about that idea?
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 11. Sep 2015, 13:33

I agree ,the buildings are the perfect choice to represent their gold lust! :-)


Well Iron Hills already has an Sword Hero but that is not so important,I just think that as Leader of Monster Killings Dwarves he should use a weapon which is supposed to do more Heavy Damage like Two Handed Mattocl or Axe! :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 11. Sep 2015, 18:03
I like you proposal. I say that your proposal is more reasonable if we take into consideration lore facts about nature of those dwarfs. Only those passive ability won't be unique, I mean it already exist in game (Dunland wildmen have this passive). 
So I will suggest that you integrate both suggestions into final concept because of that.
As I have said, I like proposal of yours, so you suggest that building "pillage" ability like first choice, and if team don't find it unique than you suggest my proposal about passive increase of attack speed.

About Grimir weapon, I really don't find sword not suitable, I mean from lore aspect swords also could be anti monster weapons, and if I remember well, Turin killed Glaurung with sword. :P
Two handed mattock or axe is also good choice, I propose this problem to be solved at the end. :P :)

Further, I have read some of previous comments from Dain, and there is some nice suggestions (about units Dain suggested some nice active abilities), so I have come to the idea of improving Grimir like anti monster hero.
First, I must also ask, how many palantir ability slots we have for Grimir? Other words, should Grimir have slot for Mithril armor or not? Other Outpost heroes don't have this slot, so I presume Grimir also won't have it. So there are five available slots for abilities and one for stances.

Current suggestion about Grimir's abilites:
Maybe we could think about Grimir like dps hero, or single target damage dealer?
First we should swithc level requirement for Toggle Weapon and Defensive position (aslo personally I am not found of that spear, simply because I really don't know how it will be included in model... And I had also suggestion of replacing that with some crossbow shot (similar to gimli's axe throw ability)).
So on level 1 Toggle weapon will be available and on level 3 defensive position.
I have suggestion, we have 5 avaliable slots, move cry of the north like level 8 ability and change it, because current description of ability already exist in game, Murin have almost same ability as this current suggested one.
So my suggestion is to move Cry of the North as lvl 8 ability, and it will be activated ability, so when Grimir activate it, he will be in special mod, more hp he lose, more attack speed he gets. This will be in agreement with his level 10 ability.
And for lvl 10 ability we will have for example ability Drake hunt,
I got inspiration from this picture
So this could be activated ability, usable on single target monster of hero, on usage dwarven spearman will be summoned in small circle around targer, so enemy monster or hero can't escape. This ability fits with Defensive position and Cry of the North ability.

So what do you think about this? :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 11. Sep 2015, 20:43
awesome suggestion crag mate
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 8. Okt 2015, 02:18
Well I think we all shared good ideas and suggestions and all that is left is to hope thar the Team will like them and take thwm into consideration!:)
But either way I think we  all have done great job and it was nice discussing all those facts and ideas!
Greetings! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 8. Okt 2015, 10:58
Hehe, there are just some interesting news on the way. ;)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 8. Okt 2015, 11:00
Oh I am excited to see them!! :0 I really hold fingers crossed that they include Ered Mithrin and Orocarni Dwarves!!! :)  ithink we all here want to see them in Edain :D
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Okt 2015, 02:43
Just saw the update on moddb. Thanks team, you made the Ered Mithrin very awesome, and ofcourse a big thanks to the peeps who brainstormed about everything here!
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Okt 2015, 02:52
Long time no see mate,glad that you are here!Yeah the Team made pretty awesome Ered Mithrin Dwarves and thank you we all did our best into polishing this idea! :-)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Okt 2015, 14:01
Yes, we have put here crazy effort in developing new outpost idea.  :P
Team saw that and used this idea to consideration. Thanks to ET, and thanks to LordDain/Tienety who started this topic and all others who helped with further development of this idea. Also many thanks to you Fredius, you have started spreading this idea to german part of forum, so you have made great step in its implementation. :)

Cheers!   :) 
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 18. Okt 2015, 16:14
Here is my "short" interpretation of Orocarni dwarves:

So I've seen quite a number of people wanting to see Orocarni dwarves in Edain, and I think I've got a solution for that! If it ends up in the game. Or... If anyone reads it.

Edain brought to us the beautiful Ered Mithrin outpost available for the Iron Hills. I thought it could be renamed to Gathering point, because the player would have an option to choose between Mithrin outpost or Orocarni outpost. Each subfaction would excel in something different than the other one, and have different weaknesses. In my opinion, yellow would be a good coluor scheme for Orocarni units.

DIFFERENCES:

Strengths - While Mithrin is undoubtedly a military outpost, unable to produce resources, Orocarni should be an opposite; a resource source for dwarves! What kind of resource source? Well, since you've asked... Quite uncommon for dwarves. We know about dwarven customs in the more "known" parts of Arda, but not too much about those that live further away. So, in contrast to known dwarves, Orocarni ones could grow their food by themselves, not buying it from men or elves. Because of that, it's logical that it has the greater amount of population, so battalions from Orocarni could be bigger than normal dwarven battalions.

Weaknesses - Just because it doesn't focus on military that much as Mithrin, it means it's units are less armoured, so there is a balance; Mithrin - quality, Orocarni - quantity. Also it is logical that it's harder to defend it since it's mainly a resource building.

Upgrades - In contrast to Mithrin which has either military or defensive upgrades, Orocarni should have an opposite:

-Additional farm: raises the resource production speed by 50%

-Banners: Grants dwarven units AND heroes with 60% armour (since Orocarni needs it more than damage) in medium radius. Additionally slightly heals ONLY heroes.  The armour bonus will stay 45 seconds after they left the effect radius.

-Defenders of the borders (same)

-Mighty crossbow: Arms the building with a huge crossbow, which, in contrast to a catapult is much faster, but it has no area damage.

Units -

Dwarven militia (melee)
Weaker than Mithrin zealots, but they come in a bigger number. They have random weapons varying between swords, axes and hammers.
Ability - Songs of the old: they gain 50% speed and are slightly healed for one minute.

Hunters (ranged)
They have no physical armour and are slow even for dwarves, but deal a lot of damage with their bows and have a great attack speed and range.
Ability - Poison arrows: they shoot poisoned arrows for 15 seconds and damaged enemies loose 50% armour and speed.

Chief Engineer (Single unit), one available at time
Cannot fight, he works similarly to Erestor; he is sent into a selected building and while he is inside, the units or upgrades are 20% cheaper.
You can choose the trait for him to follow, each costs about 200 resources and doubles his effect in certain building depending on which trait you choose.
-Mining engineer: he can be sent into mines or stone mansions.
-Smithing Engineer: he can be sent into forge.
-Architecting engineer: he can be sent into forge works.

LOOKS:

First and foremost; the building you build on Iron Hills outpost before you choose your subfaction would be the same , only when you choose Mithrin you get dragon bones. But when you choose Orocarni, colourful flags (mostly yellow) and lamps appear all over the building, to indicate how peaceful it is.

So this would be my interpretation of Orocarni, which a lot of people including me would like to see in Edain some way.
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 18. Okt 2015, 18:55
^^I also imagined that yellow would be a fitting color for the Orocarni Dwarves. I really like your interpretation of them, it sounds interesting and unique - exactly what the Edain Team likes to implement  ;). I really hope they implement the Orocarni Dwarves, I would love to see them in the mod   :).
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 23. Okt 2015, 23:54
^^I also imagined that yellow would be a fitting color for the Orocarni Dwarves. I really like your interpretation of them, it sounds interesting and unique - exactly what the Edain Team likes to implement  ;). I really hope they implement the Orocarni Dwarves, I would love to see them in the mod   :).

Thanks for your opinion! :) Actually red would be the most appropriate colour for Orocarni, but since red belongs to the Iron hills, I thought of shades of red; like orange. (Let's just forget pink.) But I think orange would look to similar to Erebor, so yellow would be the best for them. I also like imagining them in yellow :)
Titel: Re: New and Different Outpost Building for Ered Luin/Iron Hills
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 24. Okt 2015, 10:27
Ealendril said that the Orocarni Dwarves are not planned to be included yet, but he also said 'that does not mean anything'  ;) So we can hope they implement the Orocarni Dwarves sometime in the future, with yellow being their distinctive color  xD